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Campaign vows to halt desecration of High
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| Elizabeth Crawford and Jeremy Mogford |
A CAMPAIGN to counter the "systematic vandalism" of Oxford High Street has been launched.
Colleges and traders say life is being made intolerable by the noise and pollution from 2,500 buses thundering down the High every day.
The campaign will call for a big reduction in buses, and the removal of London and airport-bound buses. And it will challenge local councils to accept full responsibility for the sorry state of Oxford's "architectural jewel".
The campaign, called High Priority, will be headed by Jeremy Mogford, owner of the Old Bank Hotel, who is the new chairman of the High Street Business Association.
And colleges with historic frontages on the High have agreed to throw their weight behind an alliance that will press for a fundamental change in planning and transport policy and also seek to make the "desecration of the High" a national issue.
College bursars have accused the county council of neglecting its environmental responsibilities to the thousands of people who live and work on the High.
There are plans to commission a study of pollution and noise levels to support their case.
The campaign will also push for repaving work on the High to be resumed, after an improvement scheme was abandoned because of lack of funding.
With repaving at the Cornmarket and Magdalen Bridge ends complete, it is claimed that leaving the middle section unfinished has resulted in an "ugly mish-mash".
The decision to come out fighting was taken at a meeting of the alliance on Tuesday night, when it was claimed that warnings about the decline of the world famous street were being ignored.
There was anger that improvement work is being limited to a £3m resurfacing of the road, said to be close to collapse because of the volume of heavy buses.
The lack of investment in one of the city's greatest assets was compared with the millions being spent on London Road to speed up bus journeys and the scheme to regenerate the city's West End.
"The High is an iconic streetscape but one where the resident and visitor experience has been devalued," said Alliance spokesman Graham Jones, pictured left.
University, All Souls and Oriel are among the colleges who have helped to form High Priority.
University College domestic bursar Elizabeth Crawford said: "The High Street has been systematically vandalised over years by poor maintenance, appalling signage and the insistence on allowing any bus to go up and down the High Street, whether it is local or not. The council regard it as simply a traffic management problem. The issue of noise and atmospheric pollution seem to have dropped off the scale."
Colleges have also expressed fears about pollution and vibrations damaging the fabric of buildings.
Mr Mogford added: "In the first instance we would like to see London buses taken out of the equation."
Campaigners want planners to investigate the idea of London buses starting their journeys at park-and-rides on the edge of the city.
Ian Hudspeth, the county council cabinet member for transport, said the planned improvements programme for the High had been hit by a reduction in government funding.
7:00am Friday 4th July 2008
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CommentPosted by: Rob, Oxford on 9:18am Fri 4 Jul 08
It's just more NIMBYISM - something Oxford is very good at. If the London and airport buses start at the Park and Rides how do people get there to catch them? They provide a very popular public transport service that actually works and you want to campaign to get rid of them (or out of your sight anyhow). Absolutely crazy.
It's just more NIMBYISM - something Oxford is very good at. If the London and airport buses start at the Park and Rides how do people get there to catch them? They provide a very popular public transport service that actually works and you want to campaign to get rid of them (or out of your sight anyhow). Absolutely crazy.
Posted by: Green, Oxford on 9:49am Fri 4 Jul 08
Right, so if the London-bound buses start and end at the park and rides, there will have to be shuttle buses to get people into the city centre (at extra cost, no doubt) which will get to Gloucester Green by... travelling up the High. We want a bus service that takes us DIRECT from the city centre to the centre of London, not 'vaguely near the outskirts'.
Right, so if the London-bound buses start and end at the park and rides, there will have to be shuttle buses to get people into the city centre (at extra cost, no doubt) which will get to Gloucester Green by... travelling up the High. We want a bus service that takes us DIRECT from the city centre to the centre of London, not 'vaguely near the outskirts'.
Posted by: Dave, Abingdon on 10:04am Fri 4 Jul 08
This is why I have vowed never to eat in Quod or in fact buy anything from anyone on the High. The reason their businesses are failing is because they don't sell anything we want - antique pens anyone?
How do they think most people get to the High Street?
This is why I have vowed never to eat in Quod or in fact buy anything from anyone on the High. The reason their businesses are failing is because they don't sell anything we want - antique pens anyone?
How do they think most people get to the High Street?
Posted by: Ed, Oxford on 10:14am Fri 4 Jul 08
I don't think it's NIMBYism.
The volume of bus traffic up the High St is insane. Buses which come up the High have, over a 24 hr period, more seating capacity than the new Wembley Stadium. We just don't need this volume, and it is destroying the road not to mention the smoke from them (Stagecoach take note). Fewer off-peak buses are needed.
The High is a historic street scape and it pulls many visitors who spend their money in Oxford. If we don't protect it then they will go elsewhere and Oxford's reputation as a beautiful city will be tarnished still further.
A bus station should be built at Oxpens by the Ice Rink, and all buses should start and end there, with a pedestrian route to town and a small shuttle bus for the disabled/OAPs.
A bus-road from Redbridge to the city could be built alongside the railway line to ease the pressure on Abingdon Road.
It's all going to cost money, but the cost of doing nothing is far higher.
Oh and you know what? Rebuild the railway between Oxford and Abingdon. Remove those X13s from the road ;-)
I don't think it's NIMBYism.
The volume of bus traffic up the High St is insane. Buses which come up the High have, over a 24 hr period, more seating capacity than the new Wembley Stadium. We just don't need this volume, and it is destroying the road not to mention the smoke from them (Stagecoach take note). Fewer off-peak buses are needed.
The High is a historic street scape and it pulls many visitors who spend their money in Oxford. If we don't protect it then they will go elsewhere and Oxford's reputation as a beautiful city will be tarnished still further.
A bus station should be built at Oxpens by the Ice Rink, and all buses should start and end there, with a pedestrian route to town and a small shuttle bus for the disabled/OAPs.
A bus-road from Redbridge to the city could be built alongside the railway line to ease the pressure on Abingdon Road.
It's all going to cost money, but the cost of doing nothing is far higher.
Oh and you know what? Rebuild the railway between Oxford and Abingdon. Remove those X13s from the road ;-)
Posted by: Kathy, Bicester on 10:26am Fri 4 Jul 08
Absolutely agree with the other two posters. The High Street is the main road that people from east of Oxford have to use to get into the centre, unless they build a road of Christchurch meadows which aint gonna happen. Where do they expect bus passengers from Headington, Cowley and Blackbird Leys to get off? At the Plain and walk the rest of the way? Madness.
Absolutely agree with the other two posters. The High Street is the main road that people from east of Oxford have to use to get into the centre, unless they build a road of Christchurch meadows which aint gonna happen. Where do they expect bus passengers from Headington, Cowley and Blackbird Leys to get off? At the Plain and walk the rest of the way? Madness.
Posted by: Barry, Northern Ireland on 10:36am Fri 4 Jul 08
It's always been the same in Oxford, Colleges are always complaining about the buses and that there buildings are being damaged. Is it not about time these colleges with all the money they have (they always say they have no money ) which they are always being left millions by people they should be pumping money into Oxford . If it wasn't for the colleges Oxford would be able to have proper trams but nobody is aloud to put anything on there buildings thats why the lighting is so poor down the high
It's always been the same in Oxford, Colleges are always complaining about the buses and that there buildings are being damaged. Is it not about time these colleges with all the money they have (they always say they have no money ) which they are always being left millions by people they should be pumping money into Oxford . If it wasn't for the colleges Oxford would be able to have proper trams but nobody is aloud to put anything on there buildings thats why the lighting is so poor down the high
Posted by: brookesalum, Oxford on 11:25am Fri 4 Jul 08
I've read this several times and I still can't believe they are actually serious! Have 'High Priority' actually come up with a sensible proposal of how this would be in any way workable - any reasonable minded person can see running the London and airport buses out of the P&R is a daft notion, I know the bus companies can be lacking in the notion of customer service at times but feel even they might draw the line at this!! Also as local buses form the majority of traffic on the High I guess they will also become a target (maybe allowing one lucky bus-load from Headington/Cowley/Ma
rston/Iffley into the centre each day? Or a giant flyover perhaps?) In the same vein of sense I suggest another campaign... lets stop those pesky ambulances from using Headley Way, they are a noisy imposition!
I've read this several times and I still can't believe they are actually serious! Have 'High Priority' actually come up with a sensible proposal of how this would be in any way workable - any reasonable minded person can see running the London and airport buses out of the P&R is a daft notion, I know the bus companies can be lacking in the notion of customer service at times but feel even they might draw the line at this!! Also as local buses form the majority of traffic on the High I guess they will also become a target (maybe allowing one lucky bus-load from Headington/Cowley/Ma
rston/Iffley into the centre each day? Or a giant flyover perhaps?) In the same vein of sense I suggest another campaign... lets stop those pesky ambulances from using Headley Way, they are a noisy imposition!
Posted by: CK, Oxford on 11:55am Fri 4 Jul 08
I am quite surprised at some of the reactions. Would anyone disagree that the current High Street is an absolute disgrace for the city, in the appalling state it is in? I agree that it is difficult, if not impossible, to just remove bus services from the street out of town. I do think that two bus companies running almost completely similar services, plus a load of rural bus services and some express buses do provide the High with an overload of buses. Any capable city government would look at this problem in a bigger context, and for instance promote cycling, eliminating the need for so many bus services. Or, indeed look into reviving some rail corridors (to Blackbird Leys / Abingdon?), and yes, even think about tram services. In any case, they could think about redesigning the street to give the massive amount of pedestrians some space over the odd parked delivery van, and the 10meter wide traffic lanes. Instead, a marginal budget may now be spent on some new asphalt, which will be torn up in 10 years, start from square one. In reply to Barry: I would agree that shop owners and colleges could have a part in any repaving or remodelling through a Public Private Partnership. In several countries, including the USA, shop owners have contributed to road remodelling schemes with great success. The colleges know well that it would also benefit them to have a High Street that doesn't look tired. Business is proven to benefit from high quality public realm. An overall traffic vision reducing the need for buses, and a good partnership scheme for remodelling would go a long way IMO. People need to think about their refusal of change, and see that the situation is dire and can be improved greatly. But then again, it seems that one of Europe's most beautiful streets does not seem to be governed by some of the UK's most capable councils.
I am quite surprised at some of the reactions. Would anyone disagree that the current High Street is an absolute disgrace for the city, in the appalling state it is in? I agree that it is difficult, if not impossible, to just remove bus services from the street out of town. I do think that two bus companies running almost completely similar services, plus a load of rural bus services and some express buses do provide the High with an overload of buses. Any capable city government would look at this problem in a bigger context, and for instance promote cycling, eliminating the need for so many bus services. Or, indeed look into reviving some rail corridors (to Blackbird Leys / Abingdon?), and yes, even think about tram services. In any case, they could think about redesigning the street to give the massive amount of pedestrians some space over the odd parked delivery van, and the 10meter wide traffic lanes. Instead, a marginal budget may now be spent on some new asphalt, which will be torn up in 10 years, start from square one. In reply to Barry: I would agree that shop owners and colleges could have a part in any repaving or remodelling through a Public Private Partnership. In several countries, including the USA, shop owners have contributed to road remodelling schemes with great success. The colleges know well that it would also benefit them to have a High Street that doesn't look tired. Business is proven to benefit from high quality public realm. An overall traffic vision reducing the need for buses, and a good partnership scheme for remodelling would go a long way IMO. People need to think about their refusal of change, and see that the situation is dire and can be improved greatly. But then again, it seems that one of Europe's most beautiful streets does not seem to be governed by some of the UK's most capable councils.
Posted by: Thomas, New York on 1:48pm Fri 4 Jul 08
I cannot believe some of the comments - get over your 'town v. gown' idiocy. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be a town like Abingdon or Bicester, nice enough but wholly unremarkable. The town and the university [bold]share[/bold] an interest in keeping the place what it is: a fantastic and world-famous university town. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be much poorer in an idealistic as well as in a financial sense. Just look at Cornmarket Street (that was the city of Oxford pulling down all the historic buildings and replacing them with sixties monstrosities) and compare it to Turl Street, Merton Street or indeed the High! It's time you all pulled together to invest in Oxford's future! And, Barry: what do you think it costs to maintain a Grade 1 listed building?
I cannot believe some of the comments - get over your 'town v. gown' idiocy. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be a town like Abingdon or Bicester, nice enough but wholly unremarkable. The town and the university
share an interest in keeping the place what it is: a fantastic and world-famous university town. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be much poorer in an idealistic as well as in a financial sense. Just look at Cornmarket Street (that was the city of Oxford pulling down all the historic buildings and replacing them with sixties monstrosities) and compare it to Turl Street, Merton Street or indeed the High! It's time you all pulled together to invest in Oxford's future! And, Barry: what do you think it costs to maintain a Grade 1 listed building?
Posted by: Rob, Oxford on 2:33pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Is th right Thomas of New York? I thought the owners of the majority of the Cornmarket buildings were the University colleges so presumably they had them redeveloped in the 1960s.
And I love the arguements along the lines of 'let the people walk or let them cycle'. Who are these fundamenalists that want to tell us what to do. Having taken away the right for people to drive their cars down the High (probably a good thing) they now want to stop any form of motorised transport. Most vibrant cities towns allow a mix of transport and streets open to traffic with on street parking too. The High is a main road in and out of the city not just a nice place for tourists and academics to be virtually pedestrianised!!
Is th right Thomas of New York? I thought the owners of the majority of the Cornmarket buildings were the University colleges so presumably they had them redeveloped in the 1960s.
And I love the arguements along the lines of 'let the people walk or let them cycle'. Who are these fundamenalists that want to tell us what to do. Having taken away the right for people to drive their cars down the High (probably a good thing) they now want to stop any form of motorised transport. Most vibrant cities towns allow a mix of transport and streets open to traffic with on street parking too. The High is a main road in and out of the city not just a nice place for tourists and academics to be virtually pedestrianised!!
Posted by: CK, Oxford on 3:37pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Rob, I think that you are right in the sense that central Oxford should not be an inaccessible place, as if it were a museum. I do not quite follow your argumentation against pedestrians or cyclists, in favour of cars or buses. The High Street needs to find a more proper balance between pedestrians (cyclists) and motorised traffic, as it currently seems to tip towards giving quite a lot of space to a relatively small group of users. Think about it: how many people walk up and down the High, and how many people drive/take a bus? You'd be surprised at the amount of pedestrians, and the relatively little space they receive on the street. I am definitely against removing all traffic from the High, that would indeed make it a rather dull place. But anyone who has visited the place knows that like most places in Oxford, due to a lack of any planning, the street isn't working for pedestrians, cyclists, or buses for that matter. Leaving out ideas of left-wing fundamentalism versus freedom, what would the High Street look like in your opinion?
Rob, I think that you are right in the sense that central Oxford should not be an inaccessible place, as if it were a museum. I do not quite follow your argumentation against pedestrians or cyclists, in favour of cars or buses. The High Street needs to find a more proper balance between pedestrians (cyclists) and motorised traffic, as it currently seems to tip towards giving quite a lot of space to a relatively small group of users. Think about it: how many people walk up and down the High, and how many people drive/take a bus? You'd be surprised at the amount of pedestrians, and the relatively little space they receive on the street. I am definitely against removing all traffic from the High, that would indeed make it a rather dull place. But anyone who has visited the place knows that like most places in Oxford, due to a lack of any planning, the street isn't working for pedestrians, cyclists, or buses for that matter. Leaving out ideas of left-wing fundamentalism versus freedom, what would the High Street look like in your opinion?
Posted by: brookesalum, Oxford on 4:06pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote]I do think that two bus companies running almost completely similar services, plus a load of rural bus services and some express buses do provide the High with an overload of buses.[/quote]
Two bus companies, which at rush hour both run at full capacity. I am all for the improvement of provision for cycling and walking, however a vast number of people live too far from the centre to make that a viable alternative. Rural buses are a dying breed as it is, so the fact they are there at all should be applauded! There seems to be the assumption that everyone has access to a car, or is able bodied (or indeed just has time) enough to walk or bike several miles. Ultimately it is these buses that allow access for the residents of the city and tourists to access the city with ease - rejig the pavement/cycle lane by all means, stop the vans stopping at Carfax for sure - but altering an excellent highly used public transport serivce for mainly aesthetic reasons (that would by no means be solved by removal of the london and airport buses) is madness.
I do think that two bus companies running almost completely similar services, plus a load of rural bus services and some express buses do provide the High with an overload of buses.
Two bus companies, which at rush hour both run at full capacity. I am all for the improvement of provision for cycling and walking, however a vast number of people live too far from the centre to make that a viable alternative. Rural buses are a dying breed as it is, so the fact they are there at all should be applauded! There seems to be the assumption that everyone has access to a car, or is able bodied (or indeed just has time) enough to walk or bike several miles. Ultimately it is these buses that allow access for the residents of the city and tourists to access the city with ease - rejig the pavement/cycle lane by all means, stop the vans stopping at Carfax for sure - but altering an excellent highly used public transport serivce for mainly aesthetic reasons (that would by no means be solved by removal of the london and airport buses) is madness.
Posted by: CK, Oxford on 4:57pm Fri 4 Jul 08
OK, point taken. I agree with you that most buses during rush hour are full. I also agree that rural bus services should be encouraged. I do have to say that many local bus passengers I see could have very well taken a bicycle to the city centre, if cycling wouldn't be dead scary in Oxford. I wouldn't be surprised if 25-50% of bus passengers (students for instance) could be inspired to take a bike if the infrastructure and incentives are there. Researches prove that city cycling is often faster than taking a car, and certainly faster than taking (and waiting for) a bus. OK, easier said than done if you leave on the Headington Hill perhaps...
OK, point taken. I agree with you that most buses during rush hour are full. I also agree that rural bus services should be encouraged. I do have to say that many local bus passengers I see could have very well taken a bicycle to the city centre, if cycling wouldn't be dead scary in Oxford. I wouldn't be surprised if 25-50% of bus passengers (students for instance) could be inspired to take a bike if the infrastructure and incentives are there. Researches prove that city cycling is often faster than taking a car, and certainly faster than taking (and waiting for) a bus. OK, easier said than done if you leave on the Headington Hill perhaps...
Posted by: DanOxford on 5:26pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Kathy[/bold] wrote:
Absolutely agree with the other two posters. The High Street is the main road that people from east of Oxford have to use to get into the centre, unless they build a road of Christchurch meadows which aint gonna happen. Where do they expect bus passengers from Headington, Cowley and Blackbird Leys to get off? At the Plain and walk the rest of the way? Madness.[/quote] 'They' don't give a sh*t about people who live in East Oxford- it's where the poor people live.
Rob- spot on- Oxford IS the city of NIMBY's- first they moan about cars going up the High so they're banned and displaced to Longwall Street or Iffley/ Abingdon Road (which that prat from cyclox says is now so dangerous with people travelling at 45mph that we need a city- wide 20mph limit...), now they complain about the buses.
East Oxford hosts many, many foreign teenage language students (all needing to travel by bus from Blackbird Leys/ Greater Leys and many of whom want to go to London on day trips)), Cowley is virtually all turned over to student housing, economic immigrants and houses of multiple occupancy (meaning several people per dwelling)and the Council have introduced car parking charges to discouarge car ownership and use- meaning that people use- guess what? Buses.
All the above is quite aprt from the fact that Oxford is such a sh*t hole now that anyone would want to get out and shop or spend time elsewhere- for example in London.
As ever, absolutely no strategic planning on population, transport or balancing the needs of business, students, foreign language students, tourists, people who live and work long- term in Oxford (there are still half a dozen or so...)followind by the b**dy whinging of whoever feels hard done by this week, with no consideration of how there proposal will affect anyone else.
Kathy wrote:
Absolutely agree with the other two posters. The High Street is the main road that people from east of Oxford have to use to get into the centre, unless they build a road of Christchurch meadows which aint gonna happen. Where do they expect bus passengers from Headington, Cowley and Blackbird Leys to get off? At the Plain and walk the rest of the way? Madness.
'They' don't give a sh*t about people who live in East Oxford- it's where the poor people live.
Rob- spot on- Oxford IS the city of NIMBY's- first they moan about cars going up the High so they're banned and displaced to Longwall Street or Iffley/ Abingdon Road (which that prat from cyclox says is now so dangerous with people travelling at 45mph that we need a city- wide 20mph limit...), now they complain about the buses.
East Oxford hosts many, many foreign teenage language students (all needing to travel by bus from Blackbird Leys/ Greater Leys and many of whom want to go to London on day trips)), Cowley is virtually all turned over to student housing, economic immigrants and houses of multiple occupancy (meaning several people per dwelling)and the Council have introduced car parking charges to discouarge car ownership and use- meaning that people use- guess what? Buses.
All the above is quite aprt from the fact that Oxford is such a sh*t hole now that anyone would want to get out and shop or spend time elsewhere- for example in London.
As ever, absolutely no strategic planning on population, transport or balancing the needs of business, students, foreign language students, tourists, people who live and work long- term in Oxford (there are still half a dozen or so...)followind by the b**dy whinging of whoever feels hard done by this week, with no consideration of how there proposal will affect anyone else.
Posted by: DanOxford on 5:31pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[italic]'High Priority'-[/italic]
Please!
Last week was [italic]'20 is Plenty!'[/italic]
Every s*dding week we get some 'Special (self-) Interest' group giving themselves a catchy name and spouting absolute sh*te that would make life even more unbearable for everyone else.
Enough!
'High Priority'-
Please!
Last week was
'20 is Plenty!'
Every s*dding week we get some 'Special (self-) Interest' group giving themselves a catchy name and spouting absolute sh*te that would make life even more unbearable for everyone else.
Enough!
Posted by: DanOxford on 5:40pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Rob[/bold] wrote:
Is th right Thomas of New York? I thought the owners of the majority of the Cornmarket buildings were the University colleges so presumably they had them redeveloped in the 1960s. And I love the arguements along the lines of \'let the people walk or let them cycle\'. Who are these fundamenalists that want to tell us what to do. Having taken away the right for people to drive their cars down the High (probably a good thing) they now want to stop any form of motorised transport. Most vibrant cities towns allow a mix of transport and streets open to traffic with on street parking too. The High is a main road in and out of the city not just a nice place for tourists and academics to be virtually pedestrianised!! [/quote] Rob- as I've pointed out- it's nothing to do with common sense, balancing needs, scientific evidence or even 'green' issues.
There is a certain section of British society, particulary vocal in parts of Oxford, who want to live in a pre- industrial communist society.
As all the [bold]REAL[/bold] pre- industrial Communist countries decided it was actually unbearable and rejoiced when they could finally embrace Capitalism, personal transport, consumer goods and not having some officious finger- wagger dictating their every 'choice', this gives these people a real problem, as they can no longer romanticise about life in rural Kazakhstan or Stalin's gulag.
Rather than admit that these ideas were actually all rubbish, they've jumbed on the 'green', 'anti- capitalism' and 'direct action' bandwagons in order to impose their views on us.
As I've said before, their ideas are as woolly as their llama herder hats and look equally ridiculous when seen in the context of modern Britain.
Rob wrote:
Is th right Thomas of New York? I thought the owners of the majority of the Cornmarket buildings were the University colleges so presumably they had them redeveloped in the 1960s. And I love the arguements along the lines of \'let the people walk or let them cycle\'. Who are these fundamenalists that want to tell us what to do. Having taken away the right for people to drive their cars down the High (probably a good thing) they now want to stop any form of motorised transport. Most vibrant cities towns allow a mix of transport and streets open to traffic with on street parking too. The High is a main road in and out of the city not just a nice place for tourists and academics to be virtually pedestrianised!!
Rob- as I've pointed out- it's nothing to do with common sense, balancing needs, scientific evidence or even 'green' issues.
There is a certain section of British society, particulary vocal in parts of Oxford, who want to live in a pre- industrial communist society.
As all the
REAL pre- industrial Communist countries decided it was actually unbearable and rejoiced when they could finally embrace Capitalism, personal transport, consumer goods and not having some officious finger- wagger dictating their every 'choice', this gives these people a real problem, as they can no longer romanticise about life in rural Kazakhstan or Stalin's gulag.
Rather than admit that these ideas were actually all rubbish, they've jumbed on the 'green', 'anti- capitalism' and 'direct action' bandwagons in order to impose their views on us.
As I've said before, their ideas are as woolly as their llama herder hats and look equally ridiculous when seen in the context of modern Britain.
Posted by: Barry, Northern Ireland on 6:12pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Thomas[/bold] wrote:
I cannot believe some of the comments - get over your 'town v. gown' idiocy. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be a town like Abingdon or Bicester, nice enough but wholly unremarkable. The town and the university [bold]share[/bold] an interest in keeping the place what it is: a fantastic and world-famous university town. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be much poorer in an idealistic as well as in a financial sense. Just look at Cornmarket Street (that was the city of Oxford pulling down all the historic buildings and replacing them with sixties monstrosities) and compare it to Turl Street, Merton Street or indeed the High! It's time you all pulled together to invest in Oxford's future! And, Barry: what do you think it costs to maintain a Grade 1 listed building? [/quote] In reply to an outsider of Oxford (I by the way was born and bread in Oxford which was over 55 yrs I have only lived in Ireland 8 yrs so I know, It cost a lot of money to maintain grade 1 listed buildings but if the colleges would allow people to develop the high street then it would not cost so much over many years we in Oxford asked for street lighting down the high street as it was getting dangerous to walk down that street the colleges refused as they did not want anything on there college walls same with bus shelters at Queen st no go again as they would have to blend in with Queens college and that would cost to much, they could have a good tram system in Oxford but again the colleges won't have it as they own most of the land in and around Oxford. Thomas you say that every one should pull together to invest in Oxfords future perhaps the colleges should take note on that one. Colleges have had far too much say about what should or should not be done with Oxford it's time they let the council and the people of Oxford the ones that matter decide what should be right for Oxford not the bloody colleges
Thomas wrote:
I cannot believe some of the comments - get over your 'town v. gown' idiocy. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be a town like Abingdon or Bicester, nice enough but wholly unremarkable. The town and the university share an interest in keeping the place what it is: a fantastic and world-famous university town. Without 'the colleges', Oxford would be much poorer in an idealistic as well as in a financial sense. Just look at Cornmarket Street (that was the city of Oxford pulling down all the historic buildings and replacing them with sixties monstrosities) and compare it to Turl Street, Merton Street or indeed the High! It's time you all pulled together to invest in Oxford's future! And, Barry: what do you think it costs to maintain a Grade 1 listed building?
In reply to an outsider of Oxford (I by the way was born and bread in Oxford which was over 55 yrs I have only lived in Ireland 8 yrs so I know, It cost a lot of money to maintain grade 1 listed buildings but if the colleges would allow people to develop the high street then it would not cost so much over many years we in Oxford asked for street lighting down the high street as it was getting dangerous to walk down that street the colleges refused as they did not want anything on there college walls same with bus shelters at Queen st no go again as they would have to blend in with Queens college and that would cost to much, they could have a good tram system in Oxford but again the colleges won't have it as they own most of the land in and around Oxford. Thomas you say that every one should pull together to invest in Oxfords future perhaps the colleges should take note on that one. Colleges have had far too much say about what should or should not be done with Oxford it's time they let the council and the people of Oxford the ones that matter decide what should be right for Oxford not the bloody colleges
Posted by: Ed, Oxford on 7:02pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Weighing in again...
There are too many OFF PEAK buses. No argument about peak services - if anything there should be more.
If you let a council design a building you get a Westgate Centre & Car Park, County Hall, Macclesfield House, and just about every other vile building in Oxford. College's aren't perfect (St John's..) but they have a vested interest in keeping the "Oxford" experience going for the tourists who benefit both Town AND Gown.
Take it step by step. Slash the off peak services and reduce the High St chaos for now.
Weighing in again...
There are too many OFF PEAK buses. No argument about peak services - if anything there should be more.
If you let a council design a building you get a Westgate Centre & Car Park, County Hall, Macclesfield House, and just about every other vile building in Oxford. College's aren't perfect (St John's..) but they have a vested interest in keeping the "Oxford" experience going for the tourists who benefit both Town AND Gown.
Take it step by step. Slash the off peak services and reduce the High St chaos for now.
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