Old stables bid to house church’s growing ‘flock’

Parish council chairman Tom Bowtell. Picture: OX69155 Cliff Hide

Parish council chairman Tom Bowtell. Picture: OX69155 Cliff Hide Buy this photo

First published in News Herald Series: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter covering Abingdon and Wantage, South Oxford and Kennington. Call me on 01865 425431

A SMALL evangelical church is opening its fourth place of worship in Oxfordshire to accommodate its growing membership in the county.

The Plymouth Brethren, which has 233 county members, hopes to convert a disused leather workshop in Long Wittenham, near Didcot, into a Gospel Hall.

The church, which already has halls in Brightwell-cum-Sotwell, Didcot and Harwell, has bought the empty building near Bodkin’s sports field.

Leaders say they need to find new meeting places to cater for the church’s growing popularity in Oxfordshire.

The brethren has submitted a planning application to South Oxfordshire District Council, due to be decided on Monday, August 25.

Herald Series:

The Church of the Plymouth Brethren are hoping to convert this old leather workshop into their new church in Long Wittenham.

Church member Bruce Robertson said it wants to raise the ceiling and tidy up and carry out repairs at the rear of the building.

He said: “The building won’t be used for anything else but religious meetings on Sunday mornings and Monday evenings.

“We estimate attendances of between 30 and 40 with parking for up to 10 vehicles on site.

“We hope our new meeting place will be open by autumn.”

Long Wittenham Parish Council raised concerns about increased traffic along Northfield Lane, but Mr Robertson said traffic movements would be “much less” than when it was used as a business.

Council chairman Tom Bowtell said: “We look forward to welcoming a new organisation to the village and wish the Plymouth Brethren every success in its work here.

“One of the nice things about the plan is they are not looking to change the building, which is a lovely old stables.”

The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church dates back to the early 19th century, when it grew out of dissatisfaction with the Anglican Church. It has been worshipping in Oxfordshire ever since. Worshippers meet in simple meeting rooms where they celebrate the Lord’s Supper, join in prayer and preach the gospel.

The early founders adopted the name Plymouth Brethren because most of the new teachers were based in that city and it has a global following.

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Comments (43)

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1:59pm Fri 8 Aug 14

EMBOX2 says...

Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this...

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

....should be treated with the utmost suspicion.

That said, this building has been used by the PB for years...
Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this... "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." ....should be treated with the utmost suspicion. That said, this building has been used by the PB for years... EMBOX2
  • Score: -1

2:29pm Fri 8 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

EMBOX2 wrote:
Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this...

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

....should be treated with the utmost suspicion.

That said, this building has been used by the PB for years...
Why? What do you suspect them of?
[quote][p][bold]EMBOX2[/bold] wrote: Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this... "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." ....should be treated with the utmost suspicion. That said, this building has been used by the PB for years...[/p][/quote]Why? What do you suspect them of? xenarthra
  • Score: -1

2:44pm Fri 8 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

A little research will show the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, known as Exclusive Brethren till last year are a separatist movement who shun social contact with those not of their membership. I suggest most Evangelicals would not identify with them nor their legalistic approach to life and church either.

Readers might be interested to visit the Facebook page of those who have left or escaped from this unusual group. It's a group called "Ex-Exclusive Brethren". Then there's the website

http://www.laurencem
offitt.blogspot.co.u
k/

Where the author says "This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!"
A little research will show the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, known as Exclusive Brethren till last year are a separatist movement who shun social contact with those not of their membership. I suggest most Evangelicals would not identify with them nor their legalistic approach to life and church either. Readers might be interested to visit the Facebook page of those who have left or escaped from this unusual group. It's a group called "Ex-Exclusive Brethren". Then there's the website http://www.laurencem offitt.blogspot.co.u k/ Where the author says "This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!" 2Timothy
  • Score: 10

3:04pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Andrew:Oxford says...

EMBOX2 wrote:
Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this...

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

....should be treated with the utmost suspicion.

That said, this building has been used by the PB for years...
I wonder if this is why our friends Sietske & Helen at the CPRE have been quiet about this one...
[quote][p][bold]EMBOX2[/bold] wrote: Any "church" that dictates a woman should cover her head at "meetings" and follows this... "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." ....should be treated with the utmost suspicion. That said, this building has been used by the PB for years...[/p][/quote]I wonder if this is why our friends Sietske & Helen at the CPRE have been quiet about this one... Andrew:Oxford
  • Score: -4

4:31pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Edward Albert says...

I have a Plymouth Brethren Christian Church on our very own road. I know them well and appreciate them being in our neighbourhood. I would recommend them as neighbours and a good helpful influence for good in any society. I am in full support of this planning application. I wish them the best of luck.
I have a Plymouth Brethren Christian Church on our very own road. I know them well and appreciate them being in our neighbourhood. I would recommend them as neighbours and a good helpful influence for good in any society. I am in full support of this planning application. I wish them the best of luck. Edward Albert
  • Score: -13

5:32pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

2Timothy wrote:
A little research will show the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, known as Exclusive Brethren till last year are a separatist movement who shun social contact with those not of their membership. I suggest most Evangelicals would not identify with them nor their legalistic approach to life and church either.

Readers might be interested to visit the Facebook page of those who have left or escaped from this unusual group. It's a group called "Ex-Exclusive Brethren". Then there's the website

http://www.laurencem

offitt.blogspot.co.u

k/

Where the author says "This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!"
Have you ever heard of the expression "cwm grano salis" Tim, old boy? Well, there are literally millions of websites whose contents must be taken with one, so don't get all hot and flustered about it.
[quote][p][bold]2Timothy[/bold] wrote: A little research will show the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, known as Exclusive Brethren till last year are a separatist movement who shun social contact with those not of their membership. I suggest most Evangelicals would not identify with them nor their legalistic approach to life and church either. Readers might be interested to visit the Facebook page of those who have left or escaped from this unusual group. It's a group called "Ex-Exclusive Brethren". Then there's the website http://www.laurencem offitt.blogspot.co.u k/ Where the author says "This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!"[/p][/quote]Have you ever heard of the expression "cwm grano salis" Tim, old boy? Well, there are literally millions of websites whose contents must be taken with one, so don't get all hot and flustered about it. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -8

12:08am Sat 9 Aug 14

Zoe-James says...

What a cool use of a cow shed?! I'll tell my friends at uni to crash in for a service when it's up and running...
What a cool use of a cow shed?! I'll tell my friends at uni to crash in for a service when it's up and running... Zoe-James
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Sat 9 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Lord Palmerstone: I've seen too many websites from Australia, to Canada, to the UK to New Zealand to think this one is getting it wrong about the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.

Here's another one to add to the collection:

https://docs.google.
com/file/d/0B_UxlYy1
HP46dWluWW8wdTVqNUk/
edit?pli=1

But don't forget the subjective comments on Facebook from the leavers/escapees too.
Lord Palmerstone: I've seen too many websites from Australia, to Canada, to the UK to New Zealand to think this one is getting it wrong about the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. Here's another one to add to the collection: https://docs.google. com/file/d/0B_UxlYy1 HP46dWluWW8wdTVqNUk/ edit?pli=1 But don't forget the subjective comments on Facebook from the leavers/escapees too. 2Timothy
  • Score: 9

5:03pm Sat 9 Aug 14

7squatcat says...

Link to the actual application...

http://www.southoxon
.gov.uk/ccm/support/
Main.jsp?MODULE=Appl
icationDetails&REF=P
14/S1964/FUL
Link to the actual application... http://www.southoxon .gov.uk/ccm/support/ Main.jsp?MODULE=Appl icationDetails&REF=P 14/S1964/FUL 7squatcat
  • Score: 5

6:11pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

2Timothy wrote:
Lord Palmerstone: I've seen too many websites from Australia, to Canada, to the UK to New Zealand to think this one is getting it wrong about the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.

Here's another one to add to the collection:

https://docs.google.

com/file/d/0B_UxlYy1

HP46dWluWW8wdTVqNUk/

edit?pli=1

But don't forget the subjective comments on Facebook from the leavers/escapees too.
I know. Most of them are aliens and they can turn you to glass by just looking at you. I know. I read it in the Daily Sport.
"I've seen too many websites " no doubt sums it up. Give your fevered imagination a rest.
[quote][p][bold]2Timothy[/bold] wrote: Lord Palmerstone: I've seen too many websites from Australia, to Canada, to the UK to New Zealand to think this one is getting it wrong about the Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. Here's another one to add to the collection: https://docs.google. com/file/d/0B_UxlYy1 HP46dWluWW8wdTVqNUk/ edit?pli=1 But don't forget the subjective comments on Facebook from the leavers/escapees too.[/p][/quote]I know. Most of them are aliens and they can turn you to glass by just looking at you. I know. I read it in the Daily Sport. "I've seen too many websites " no doubt sums it up. Give your fevered imagination a rest. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -15

9:47pm Sat 9 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Lord Palmerstone said

"I know. Most of them are aliens and they can turn you to glass by just looking at you. I know. I read it in the Daily Sport.
"I've seen too many websites " no doubt sums it up. Give your fevered imagination a rest."

I guess you know it's not imagination, your put-down comment does
not alter the truth in any case. Are you writing on behalf of the Plymouth Brethren as your style is very similar to their put-downs and aggressive responses?
Lord Palmerstone said "I know. Most of them are aliens and they can turn you to glass by just looking at you. I know. I read it in the Daily Sport. "I've seen too many websites " no doubt sums it up. Give your fevered imagination a rest." I guess you know it's not imagination, your put-down comment does not alter the truth in any case. Are you writing on behalf of the Plymouth Brethren as your style is very similar to their put-downs and aggressive responses? 2Timothy
  • Score: 13

10:00pm Sat 9 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Paul Flynn MP discussed the Plymouth Brethren on his blog. Is this feverish imagination, Lord Palmerstone? Here are just 2 examples:

http://paulflynnmp.t
ypepad.com/my_weblog
/2012/11/exclusive-b
rethren-the-whole-tr
uth.html

or

http://paulflynnmp.t
ypepad.com/my_weblog
/2013/01/inquiry-int
o-exclusive-brethren
-needed.html

Would you like more links as evidence?
Paul Flynn MP discussed the Plymouth Brethren on his blog. Is this feverish imagination, Lord Palmerstone? Here are just 2 examples: http://paulflynnmp.t ypepad.com/my_weblog /2012/11/exclusive-b rethren-the-whole-tr uth.html or http://paulflynnmp.t ypepad.com/my_weblog /2013/01/inquiry-int o-exclusive-brethren -needed.html Would you like more links as evidence? 2Timothy
  • Score: 12

8:13am Sun 10 Aug 14

Lampoon says...

All religion sucks. Grow up; it's like believing in Father Christmas.....
All religion sucks. Grow up; it's like believing in Father Christmas..... Lampoon
  • Score: 2

8:58am Sun 10 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

No I'm not a PB. Nor do I think that WW1 as lost to Germany because of Jews, Freemasons and War Profiteers. Nor that the Soviet Revolution was in danger from Kulaks, nor that the Cambodian one was under threat from folks in glasses nor that Mao was obliged to kill 70 million to ensure the success of his revolution. Nor have I to the best of my recollection ever believed a single word that Flynn uttered. In short I'm not a conspiracy theorist; you are. That's fine.
No I'm not a PB. Nor do I think that WW1 as lost to Germany because of Jews, Freemasons and War Profiteers. Nor that the Soviet Revolution was in danger from Kulaks, nor that the Cambodian one was under threat from folks in glasses nor that Mao was obliged to kill 70 million to ensure the success of his revolution. Nor have I to the best of my recollection ever believed a single word that Flynn uttered. In short I'm not a conspiracy theorist; you are. That's fine. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -14

9:04am Sun 10 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

In fact I have worked with 2 PB's in my working lifetime and if they breakfasted on babies and spent their lunch break calling up Beelzebub I didn't notice, so perhaps that you're more observant than I.
In fact I have worked with 2 PB's in my working lifetime and if they breakfasted on babies and spent their lunch break calling up Beelzebub I didn't notice, so perhaps that you're more observant than I. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -14

11:06am Sun 10 Aug 14

_Pip__ says...

Lord P, here is my direct observance of how the PBCC behave. I was raised from birth in the group. At age 20 I realised I did not agree with the way we were practising Christianity, and after a lot of thought as to the consequences, I told them I could not be a Brethren any more (this was because they do not allow dissent, not because I particularly wanted to leave). I was immediately put 'under discipline' - this meant I was cut off completely from the entire congregation including my parents (with whom I lived) and all my siblings. Some 18 months later I bumped into my sister in a supermarket and she refused to speak to me.

In practice, this is not that dissimilar to breakfasting on babies & calling on Beelzebub, in my experience! Extremely painful - ask anyone who's had their family & culture forcibly removed from them because they disagreed with some edict or other, or they upset the wrong person in power...

The PBCC are a group who appear benign, but are actually ruthlessly nonChristian in the way they secretly view outsiders - I say that as a former member who used to behave just that way myself. Every now & then that 'secret' arrogance spills over into the light of day - it is very ugly when seen or experienced. They will lie through their teeth to get what they want: physically, spiritually, legally - none of it matters when you know as a PBCC member you have to put the cult (they call it "the assembly position") first.
Lord P, here is my direct observance of how the PBCC behave. I was raised from birth in the group. At age 20 I realised I did not agree with the way we were practising Christianity, and after a lot of thought as to the consequences, I told them I could not be a Brethren any more (this was because they do not allow dissent, not because I particularly wanted to leave). I was immediately put 'under discipline' - this meant I was cut off completely from the entire congregation including my parents (with whom I lived) and all my siblings. Some 18 months later I bumped into my sister in a supermarket and she refused to speak to me. In practice, this is not that dissimilar to breakfasting on babies & calling on Beelzebub, in my experience! Extremely painful - ask anyone who's had their family & culture forcibly removed from them because they disagreed with some edict or other, or they upset the wrong person in power... The PBCC are a group who appear benign, but are actually ruthlessly nonChristian in the way they secretly view outsiders - I say that as a former member who used to behave just that way myself. Every now & then that 'secret' arrogance spills over into the light of day - it is very ugly when seen or experienced. They will lie through their teeth to get what they want: physically, spiritually, legally - none of it matters when you know as a PBCC member you have to put the cult (they call it "the assembly position") first. _Pip__
  • Score: 15

11:25am Sun 10 Aug 14

_Pip__ says...

PS: Their leaders' quoted comment in the above article about the church's "growing popularity in Oxfordshire" is a classic example of the way they distort truth, or straight-out lie. The PBCC is not growing members because of its popularity! It's growing members because of:
a) Organised immigration from other PBCC localities worldwide (the leader decreed some years ago there was to be a mass exodus from S.Africa, for example);
b) Contraception is 'discouraged' shall we say, and many Brethren have had massive-sized families over the decades resulting in an increase in their population (note one of the comments above about how women are repressed in this cult).

If you'd had your family and birth-culture removed at a stroke by a group such as this (and your children denied access to their grandparents and other relatives in the Brethren over resultant decades), you might understand why reading even the most innocuous-sounding of their lies in print, causes one to want to speak the truth about this group.
PS: Their leaders' quoted comment in the above article about the church's "growing popularity in Oxfordshire" is a classic example of the way they distort truth, or straight-out lie. The PBCC is not growing members because of its popularity! It's growing members because of: a) Organised immigration from other PBCC localities worldwide (the leader decreed some years ago there was to be a mass exodus from S.Africa, for example); b) Contraception is 'discouraged' shall we say, and many Brethren have had massive-sized families over the decades resulting in an increase in their population (note one of the comments above about how women are repressed in this cult). If you'd had your family and birth-culture removed at a stroke by a group such as this (and your children denied access to their grandparents and other relatives in the Brethren over resultant decades), you might understand why reading even the most innocuous-sounding of their lies in print, causes one to want to speak the truth about this group. _Pip__
  • Score: 15

12:48pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

I wouldn't dispute what you say Pip. Your experience of cults sounds familiar, up to and including Peoples Temple Agricultural Project but I trust you would not go along with all the castration, suicide, murder, hatred etc. of Timothy which is more Salem, Mass 1692/3 than Oxford England 2014.
I wouldn't dispute what you say Pip. Your experience of cults sounds familiar, up to and including Peoples Temple Agricultural Project but I trust you would not go along with all the castration, suicide, murder, hatred etc. of Timothy which is more Salem, Mass 1692/3 than Oxford England 2014. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -12

2:38pm Sun 10 Aug 14

_Pip__ says...

"Go along with", LordP? I am personally acquainted with Craig Hoyle (whom a Brethren doctor tried to chemically castrate on the say-so of Bruce Hales, leader of the PBCC). I know of two ex-Brethren men who have never forgotten as youngsters seeing the rope marks on the neck of a young EB mother who committed suicide in 1980 when under the 'assembly discipline' of what is now known as the PBCC. A relative of mine found the body of another man - similarly 'under discipline', forcibly estranged from his Brethren wife/children - who killed himself some years previously.

The websites etc to which 2Tim2 refers you, are not the half of what has gone on in the Exclusive Brethren/PBCC cult, LordP. Your 1692/2014 comparison reminds me of another: it was only after I left the Brethren that I realised how stuck in the Dark Ages they are. The witch-hunts and psychological torment and repression and abuse of human rights that go on in the PBCC, are unbelievable.

I do understand how you FIND it hard to believe this stuff, when you are perhaps looking at a nice little PBCC family who live down your street, or the cheerful PBCC businessman you deal with. There are so many lovely people in the group... which is partly why some of us ex-members and others who know the truth of the PBCC separatist system, continue to work to expose it, in the hope of achieving some freeing change for our loved ones.
"Go along with", LordP? I am personally acquainted with Craig Hoyle (whom a Brethren doctor tried to chemically castrate on the say-so of Bruce Hales, leader of the PBCC). I know of two ex-Brethren men who have never forgotten as youngsters seeing the rope marks on the neck of a young EB mother who committed suicide in 1980 when under the 'assembly discipline' of what is now known as the PBCC. A relative of mine found the body of another man - similarly 'under discipline', forcibly estranged from his Brethren wife/children - who killed himself some years previously. The websites etc to which 2Tim2 refers you, are not the half of what has gone on in the Exclusive Brethren/PBCC cult, LordP. Your 1692/2014 comparison reminds me of another: it was only after I left the Brethren that I realised how stuck in the Dark Ages they are. The witch-hunts and psychological torment and repression and abuse of human rights that go on in the PBCC, are unbelievable. I do understand how you FIND it hard to believe this stuff, when you are perhaps looking at a nice little PBCC family who live down your street, or the cheerful PBCC businessman you deal with. There are so many lovely people in the group... which is partly why some of us ex-members and others who know the truth of the PBCC separatist system, continue to work to expose it, in the hope of achieving some freeing change for our loved ones. _Pip__
  • Score: 13

2:50pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

You quote 3 suicides and what sounds like administering a toxic substance. Troubling but rather long way from Timothy's murder, and mayhem-oh and "non paying taxes" shock horror, wish I could avoid the State shafting me for 40% and upwards of all I possess. But you'll appreciate that his hysterical tone doesn't help. In fact, what do you want? For the PB to be proscribed? We're not in "honour killing" country and, so far as I know, the Mohammedan faith/s have not been proscribed for their penchant for that quaint custom.
You quote 3 suicides and what sounds like administering a toxic substance. Troubling but rather long way from Timothy's murder, and mayhem-oh and "non paying taxes" shock horror, wish I could avoid the State shafting me for 40% and upwards of all I possess. But you'll appreciate that his hysterical tone doesn't help. In fact, what do you want? For the PB to be proscribed? We're not in "honour killing" country and, so far as I know, the Mohammedan faith/s have not been proscribed for their penchant for that quaint custom. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -11

3:12pm Sun 10 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
No I'm not a PB. Nor do I think that WW1 as lost to Germany because of Jews, Freemasons and War Profiteers. Nor that the Soviet Revolution was in danger from Kulaks, nor that the Cambodian one was under threat from folks in glasses nor that Mao was obliged to kill 70 million to ensure the success of his revolution. Nor have I to the best of my recollection ever believed a single word that Flynn uttered. In short I'm not a conspiracy theorist; you are. That's fine.
What are you talking about? Is this a distraction ploy? If not, it seems pretty weird stuff!

Maybe you like the Tory Peer, Baroness Berridge:

http://www.baronessb
erridge.com/charity-
commission-forces-a-
detrimental-religion
-to-change-its-ways/


or

http://www.civilsoci
ety.co.uk/governance
/news/content/13879/
tory_peer_backs_comm
issions_stand_on_exc
lusive_brethren
[quote][p][bold]Lord Palmerstone[/bold] wrote: No I'm not a PB. Nor do I think that WW1 as lost to Germany because of Jews, Freemasons and War Profiteers. Nor that the Soviet Revolution was in danger from Kulaks, nor that the Cambodian one was under threat from folks in glasses nor that Mao was obliged to kill 70 million to ensure the success of his revolution. Nor have I to the best of my recollection ever believed a single word that Flynn uttered. In short I'm not a conspiracy theorist; you are. That's fine.[/p][/quote]What are you talking about? Is this a distraction ploy? If not, it seems pretty weird stuff! Maybe you like the Tory Peer, Baroness Berridge: http://www.baronessb erridge.com/charity- commission-forces-a- detrimental-religion -to-change-its-ways/ or http://www.civilsoci ety.co.uk/governance /news/content/13879/ tory_peer_backs_comm issions_stand_on_exc lusive_brethren 2Timothy
  • Score: 9

3:50pm Sun 10 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

"A Current Affair" a program of the Australian Ninemsn network http://aca.ninemsn.c
om.au/ have another expose on these Plymouth Brethren/Exclusive Brethren tomorrow night:

https://www.facebook
.com/ACurrentAffair9
/photos/a.1332946667
76919.22143.12908656
0531063/575519589221
089/?type=1&fref=nf
"A Current Affair" a program of the Australian Ninemsn network http://aca.ninemsn.c om.au/ have another expose on these Plymouth Brethren/Exclusive Brethren tomorrow night: https://www.facebook .com/ACurrentAffair9 /photos/a.1332946667 76919.22143.12908656 0531063/575519589221 089/?type=1&fref=nf 2Timothy
  • Score: 7

5:34pm Sun 10 Aug 14

_Pip__ says...

LordP wrote: "In fact, what do you want? For the PB to be proscribed?"

Nope, I would just like the govt to abide by the UN charter on human rights to which it signed up, and ensure that religious groups are prosecuted if they infringe their own members' or others' rights to freedom from interference in family relationships, freedom to change religion, freedom of educational choice (PBCC children have to go to PBCC schools and are not allowed to attend university).

I agree that a hysterical tone does not help, but I don't sense that from 2Tim2's posted links. So many of the things that have happened - in many cases are still happening - are horrendous. Nearly all ex-Brethren (and there are thousands of us worldwide) have been psychologically damaged by PBCC separatist or disciplinary actions. It pays to bear that in mind when you hear exBrethren speak - a bit like listening to refugees tell of past trauma... rarely can it be clean and tidy and devoid of emotion, and as I said earlier: those links 2Tim2 has posted do not contain the half of it.
LordP wrote: "In fact, what do you want? For the PB to be proscribed?" Nope, I would just like the govt to abide by the UN charter on human rights to which it signed up, and ensure that religious groups are prosecuted if they infringe their own members' or others' rights to freedom from interference in family relationships, freedom to change religion, freedom of educational choice (PBCC children have to go to PBCC schools and are not allowed to attend university). I agree that a hysterical tone does not help, but I don't sense that from 2Tim2's posted links. So many of the things that have happened - in many cases are still happening - are horrendous. Nearly all ex-Brethren (and there are thousands of us worldwide) have been psychologically damaged by PBCC separatist or disciplinary actions. It pays to bear that in mind when you hear exBrethren speak - a bit like listening to refugees tell of past trauma... rarely can it be clean and tidy and devoid of emotion, and as I said earlier: those links 2Tim2 has posted do not contain the half of it. _Pip__
  • Score: 11

7:12pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

"What are you talking about? Is this a distraction ploy? If not, it seems pretty weird stuff!" Don't the Mohammedans do honour killings? You tell me.

" Maybe you like the Tory Peer, Baroness Berridge". I've never heard of her. Are you a matchmaker? I'm very happy with my domestic partner ta v. much. Get back to you arcane websites.
"Nope, I would just like the govt to abide by the UN charter on human rights to which it signed up, and ensure that religious groups are prosecuted if they infringe their own members' or others' rights to freedom from interference in family relationships, freedom to change religion, freedom of educational choice"
Very hard to regulate an inchoate entity like a religious belief group. I'd not like to draft the statutes.
"What are you talking about? Is this a distraction ploy? If not, it seems pretty weird stuff!" Don't the Mohammedans do honour killings? You tell me. " Maybe you like the Tory Peer, Baroness Berridge". I've never heard of her. Are you a matchmaker? I'm very happy with my domestic partner ta v. much. Get back to you arcane websites. "Nope, I would just like the govt to abide by the UN charter on human rights to which it signed up, and ensure that religious groups are prosecuted if they infringe their own members' or others' rights to freedom from interference in family relationships, freedom to change religion, freedom of educational choice" Very hard to regulate an inchoate entity like a religious belief group. I'd not like to draft the statutes. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -12

9:36pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Lampoon says...

.........what exactly are you debating/arguing about? As I said, grow up....it's not real, just funny stories! Father Christmas isn't real.
.........what exactly are you debating/arguing about? As I said, grow up....it's not real, just funny stories! Father Christmas isn't real. Lampoon
  • Score: -1

12:37am Mon 11 Aug 14

MarionE says...

People need to be extremely wary of the PBCC. There is a side to them that they don't want you to know. They appear to be conducting charm offensives in various locations, including Grayshott in Surrey, in an effort to convince communities that they are a harmless and helpful group of genuine Christians. However, historically, he PBCC did nothing charitable and it is only the Charity Commission’s recent scrutiny that gave rise to “charitable acts” amid much publicity.

The PBCC managed to persuade the Charity Commission to award them charitable status. However, the Charity Commission concluded that there were “elements of detriment and harm which emanated from doctrine and practices of the Brethren” and they instructed them to make amends for past mistakes and to refrain from treating people “vindictively, maliciously or unfairly”. Despite this, the PBCC continue to mete out harsh treatment to those who have left their group, including, only a few days ago, forbidding an ex-member from attending the funeral of his mother.

This link: http://bit.ly/public
awarenesscampaignbro
chure gives a very small snapshot of what the PBCC DON’T want you to know. To learn more about these people please read it and click on the links. Everything is true, although much of it seems unbelievable.

The PBCC are not what they purport to be. If you have any questions email them to: campaigngroupforjust
ice@gmail.com
People need to be extremely wary of the PBCC. There is a side to them that they don't want you to know. They appear to be conducting charm offensives in various locations, including Grayshott in Surrey, in an effort to convince communities that they are a harmless and helpful group of genuine Christians. However, historically, he PBCC did nothing charitable and it is only the Charity Commission’s recent scrutiny that gave rise to “charitable acts” amid much publicity. The PBCC managed to persuade the Charity Commission to award them charitable status. However, the Charity Commission concluded that there were “elements of detriment and harm which emanated from doctrine and practices of the Brethren” and they instructed them to make amends for past mistakes and to refrain from treating people “vindictively, maliciously or unfairly”. Despite this, the PBCC continue to mete out harsh treatment to those who have left their group, including, only a few days ago, forbidding an ex-member from attending the funeral of his mother. This link: http://bit.ly/public awarenesscampaignbro chure gives a very small snapshot of what the PBCC DON’T want you to know. To learn more about these people please read it and click on the links. Everything is true, although much of it seems unbelievable. The PBCC are not what they purport to be. If you have any questions email them to: campaigngroupforjust ice@gmail.com MarionE
  • Score: 7

9:47pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Lampoon says...

"The radio and television have become “pipelines of filth” intruding into households and disrupting family life. Television is used at times for educational purposes"...........
I don't know about anyone else but I can't get those "filth" channels through my telly!! Hilarious morons.
"The radio and television have become “pipelines of filth” intruding into households and disrupting family life. Television is used at times for educational purposes"........... I don't know about anyone else but I can't get those "filth" channels through my telly!! Hilarious morons. Lampoon
  • Score: 3

8:57am Tue 12 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

" including, only a few days ago, forbidding an ex-member from attending the funeral of his mother"
Which, his being an ex-member, was presumably ignored. If it was obeyed, how would you propose the State tackle his dysfunctionality? Or, if you are saying that other members of his family remained beholden and excluded him, how would you have the State tackle their dysfunctionality?
I'm afraid the Charity Commission became a busted flush under Dame "Suzi" Leather. Ironic that now so many charities have been incapacitated by left wing entryism , Blair should have put a left wing apparatchik in control of them.
" including, only a few days ago, forbidding an ex-member from attending the funeral of his mother" Which, his being an ex-member, was presumably ignored. If it was obeyed, how would you propose the State tackle his dysfunctionality? Or, if you are saying that other members of his family remained beholden and excluded him, how would you have the State tackle their dysfunctionality? I'm afraid the Charity Commission became a busted flush under Dame "Suzi" Leather. Ironic that now so many charities have been incapacitated by left wing entryism , Blair should have put a left wing apparatchik in control of them. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: -5

4:46pm Wed 13 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Here's the You Tube link to the latest Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church expose. It's interesting, the Australian TV have no hesitation in calling them a cult.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=3V4AOp4d1
2E
Here's the You Tube link to the latest Exclusive Brethren/Plymouth Brethren Christian Church expose. It's interesting, the Australian TV have no hesitation in calling them a cult. http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=3V4AOp4d1 2E 2Timothy
  • Score: 5

9:28am Thu 14 Aug 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

No such thing as god, so they're obviously up to no good whenever they congregate in their buildings
No such thing as god, so they're obviously up to no good whenever they congregate in their buildings Dilligaf2010
  • Score: -2

9:20am Fri 15 Aug 14

Lord Palmerstone says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
No such thing as god, so they're obviously up to no good whenever they congregate in their buildings
No such thing as Dilligaf2010 so where do all the daft remarks come from?
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: No such thing as god, so they're obviously up to no good whenever they congregate in their buildings[/p][/quote]No such thing as Dilligaf2010 so where do all the daft remarks come from? Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: 0

7:53pm Sun 24 Aug 14

He Man says...

I went to one of there 'open days' recently and there show of hospitality to me and my partner was exceptional. Can't understand all this stuff .. I wouldn't mind going to one at this place when it gets going.. keep the old bricks and morter and don't lose the style... rock on
I went to one of there 'open days' recently and there show of hospitality to me and my partner was exceptional. Can't understand all this stuff .. I wouldn't mind going to one at this place when it gets going.. keep the old bricks and morter and don't lose the style... rock on He Man
  • Score: -4

7:04pm Mon 25 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

He Man

I agree on the surface things look good. That's why I suggest people do a little research to find out the reality. For yet more information try: http://wikipeebia.co
m/ .
He Man I agree on the surface things look good. That's why I suggest people do a little research to find out the reality. For yet more information try: http://wikipeebia.co m/ . 2Timothy
  • Score: 3

7:23pm Mon 25 Aug 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

2Timothy wrote:
He Man

I agree on the surface things look good. That's why I suggest people do a little research to find out the reality. For yet more information try: http://wikipeebia.co

m/ .
Why does it matter?
[quote][p][bold]2Timothy[/bold] wrote: He Man I agree on the surface things look good. That's why I suggest people do a little research to find out the reality. For yet more information try: http://wikipeebia.co m/ .[/p][/quote]Why does it matter? Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -3

10:27pm Mon 25 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Heinz Kiosk

Depends on who we want in the community.

Also if the regular community can help escapees and leavers. To do that we need to be aware of the situation they're leaving.
Heinz Kiosk Depends on who we want in the community. Also if the regular community can help escapees and leavers. To do that we need to be aware of the situation they're leaving. 2Timothy
  • Score: 3

9:56am Tue 26 Aug 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

2Timothy
With potentially 500 nasties re-entering the country in the next couple of months, many through Turkey and unknown to our authorities, and all ready to wage jihad on you and me I actually couldn't care less and would be surprised if anyone else does.
The nasties I'd prefer not in my country ("community"in this context is quite meaningless) but people fall out with family and friends every day and get over it.
2Timothy With potentially 500 nasties re-entering the country in the next couple of months, many through Turkey and unknown to our authorities, and all ready to wage jihad on you and me I actually couldn't care less and would be surprised if anyone else does. The nasties I'd prefer not in my country ("community"in this context is quite meaningless) but people fall out with family and friends every day and get over it. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -2

12:29pm Tue 26 Aug 14

2Timothy says...

Heinz Kiosk

I think you have missed the point. Maybe read some of the articles I have suggested for a better understanding?
Heinz Kiosk I think you have missed the point. Maybe read some of the articles I have suggested for a better understanding? 2Timothy
  • Score: 3

3:39pm Mon 1 Sep 14

He Man says...

2 Timothy,

I've had a look at this site... personal stuff I'd say, who ever wrote it! I take everyone for face value, good bloke, good lady, doing good things. So much stuff on the internet these days, don't know what to believe. I worry a lot more about other wonky stuff, my partner and I take our time up with worthwhile stuff. Happy days
2 Timothy, I've had a look at this site... personal stuff I'd say, who ever wrote it! I take everyone for face value, good bloke, good lady, doing good things. So much stuff on the internet these days, don't know what to believe. I worry a lot more about other wonky stuff, my partner and I take our time up with worthwhile stuff. Happy days He Man
  • Score: -1

4:36pm Mon 1 Sep 14

2Timothy says...

He Man,

Thank you for your latest contribution. Your stilted style of comment suggests to me you are a member of this curious group. Are you?

www.wikipeebia.com is not a personal website but a compilation from round the world of escapees and leavers from the Exclusive Brethren, aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.

How about a Canadian viewpoint this time?

http://www.winnipegf
reepress.com/local/T
he-closed-door-churc
h-258336281.html?pag
e=all

Same type of stories, different places.
He Man, Thank you for your latest contribution. Your stilted style of comment suggests to me you are a member of this curious group. Are you? www.wikipeebia.com is not a personal website but a compilation from round the world of escapees and leavers from the Exclusive Brethren, aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. How about a Canadian viewpoint this time? http://www.winnipegf reepress.com/local/T he-closed-door-churc h-258336281.html?pag e=all Same type of stories, different places. 2Timothy
  • Score: 1

7:14pm Mon 1 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

2Timothy wrote:
He Man,

Thank you for your latest contribution. Your stilted style of comment suggests to me you are a member of this curious group. Are you?

www.wikipeebia.com is not a personal website but a compilation from round the world of escapees and leavers from the Exclusive Brethren, aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.

How about a Canadian viewpoint this time?

http://www.winnipegf

reepress.com/local/T

he-closed-door-churc

h-258336281.html?pag

e=all

Same type of stories, different places.
Dead horse flogging? How many ways are there to say it Tim? I'll bet those who leave ISIS have loads of fun.
[quote][p][bold]2Timothy[/bold] wrote: He Man, Thank you for your latest contribution. Your stilted style of comment suggests to me you are a member of this curious group. Are you? www.wikipeebia.com is not a personal website but a compilation from round the world of escapees and leavers from the Exclusive Brethren, aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. How about a Canadian viewpoint this time? http://www.winnipegf reepress.com/local/T he-closed-door-churc h-258336281.html?pag e=all Same type of stories, different places.[/p][/quote]Dead horse flogging? How many ways are there to say it Tim? I'll bet those who leave ISIS have loads of fun. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -1

11:06pm Mon 1 Sep 14

2Timothy says...

Heinz Kiosk

"Same type of stories, different places"

That's what I find so compelling in this understanding of the Exclusive Brethren aka The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. Wherever you go, The UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, wherever you read, apart from their own spin, the same story emerges. So, no, not flogging a dead horse, just thoroughly establishing a point.
Heinz Kiosk "Same type of stories, different places" That's what I find so compelling in this understanding of the Exclusive Brethren aka The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. Wherever you go, The UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, wherever you read, apart from their own spin, the same story emerges. So, no, not flogging a dead horse, just thoroughly establishing a point. 2Timothy
  • Score: 3

8:00am Tue 2 Sep 14

Heinz Kiosk says...

I should suppose any closed type organisations in any what you might call Judaeo-Christian countries would be broadly the same, wouldn't you?
Hence my mention of ISIS a non-Judaeo Christian organisation to leave which will mean you get murdered. Very mildly interesting but hardly earth-shattering.
I should suppose any closed type organisations in any what you might call Judaeo-Christian countries would be broadly the same, wouldn't you? Hence my mention of ISIS a non-Judaeo Christian organisation to leave which will mean you get murdered. Very mildly interesting but hardly earth-shattering. Heinz Kiosk
  • Score: -3

10:01am Tue 2 Sep 14

2Timothy says...

Heinz Kiosk

I think you have introduced a red herring.
Heinz Kiosk I think you have introduced a red herring. 2Timothy
  • Score: 5

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