Vale council may shut all of its public toilets

11:00am Wednesday 23rd January 2013 in Abingdon

Vale opposition leader Richard Webber outside the Hales Meadow superloos in Abingdon Vale opposition leader Richard Webber outside the Hales Meadow superloos in Abingdon

PUBLIC toilets across the Vale could be closed to save more than £110,000.

Officers at Vale of White Horse District Council have suggested closing all remaining public conveniences the authority provides.

Two have already been closed in the last year and now the other eight face the axe. Steve King, 60, who lives at the Brewery Complex in Abingdon, said: “This is absolutely not a good idea.

“Ask the Vale council what their staff and councillors would do if they closed down the toilets in their offices.

“They are proposing the same thing for people who work in the town market, and shoppers as well.

“There is no point spending money on the shopping precinct and giving free parking away if they then take away their services.”

Closing all standard toilets in Abingdon, Botley, Faringdon and Wantage is estimated to save £15,000 a year per toilet, a total of £90,000. And shutting the automatic ‘Superloo’ toilets in Abingdon and Grove could save a further £12,000 from each site, a total of £24,000.

The toilet closures are among a raft of cash saving suggestions put forward by council officers to be considered by the cabinet on February 8.

The cabinet will decide whether to include the proposals in its draft £10.48m 2013/14 budget, due to be decided by the full council on February 20.

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Other proposed savings include: Stopping the out-of-hours service to deal with noise complaints, saving £12,000 a year Cut one environment warden post (Saving £36,000) Cut one post from the food team (£46,000) Charge parish councils more to empty dog bins, raising an extra £16,000 a year.

Charge new customers £9 to deliver garden waste bins, bringing in £9,000 a year.

Although the council is not legally obliged to provide public toilets, Lib Dem opposition leader for the Vale Richard Webber said his party opposed the idea of shutting them.

Mr Webber, 66, who lives in Drayton, said: “I feel closing these toilets would have a real bad impact on town centre vitality.

“The town centre is used more and more as place for socialising.

“So, although the toilets are expensive to run, we want to keep them, certainly for elderly and disabled people as an absolute minimum.”

The six public toilets under threat are in Manor Road, and Portway Car Park in Wantage, Southampton Street Car Park in Faringdon, Chapel Way, Botley and in the Charter Car Park and Abbey Meadows, Abingdon.

The council also provides two Superloos, which cost 20p to use, are self-cleaning and open 24 hours a day. They are at Hales Meadow in Abingdon and Millbrook Square in Grove.

Two other superloos, in West St Helen’s Street, Abingdon, and Post Office Lane, Wantage, were closed in July.

Council spokesman Gavin Walton said: “These proposals are yet to be considered by councillors. At this stage it would be wrong to assume that any of these ideas will be taken forward.”

Comments(36)

EMBOX2 says...
12:00pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Sorry, they should be cutting staff by joining more with SODC before slashing services like this.

How about VHWDC and SODC merge completely? Then they can flog the posh offices in Abingdon and Wallingford, move to a business park somewhere and save the taxpayer a few million in the process?

Honestly..we don't need two councils doing the same job within a few miles of each other. It is absurd.

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orangefoot says...
12:27pm Wed 23 Jan 13

One of the complaints from visitors who were interviewed by the Hidden Britain researchers was the the toilet facilities in Abingdon were poor and poorly signposted.

See page 57 in this document:

http://www.chooseabi
ngdon.co.uk/uploads/
Documents/pdf/Choose
%20Abingdon%20Visito
r%20Research.pdf

How many families with children will stay at Abbey Meadows all day in the summer if they close the toilets there?

The toilets should be IMPOROVED, not closed. The council just need to find a way to do that. Sponsorship perhaps? The superloos alongside the river are ideal for advertising for example.

The problem with the council is that they are used to counting and spending beans instead of looking for ways to add beans to their pot from other sources to improve things.

Does no-one in the council have a creative thought in their head?

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Adrian1 says...
12:39pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Of course more money can then be raised by fining more folks for urinating in public 'cos there is no other option! I look forward to a more regular stench of stale urine around those areas then. Will we be bringing back wide apature overhead non flush gravity fed toilets shortly to save on water too? We could return to open sewers to save on pipework and maintenance additionally.

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oafie says...
12:43pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Wish other councils would do the same-
Public Toilets should be just that, Many are unfortunately dominated by those wishing to use them for sexual activities.
There are no qualms about advertising them and Oxon County Council awarded a grant to Terence Higgins Trust to provide health education services in such 'public sex environments'. Want to know where I.m talking about if you don't already. They advertise wildly enough
cruising gays.com
oxfordshirecruisng
thegayuk.com
swingingheaven.co.uk

or just check out lay bys and toilets on the A40- Oxfordshire.
Councils are spending vast sums of money on cleaning, maintaining and clearly up the rubbish left behind at these sites- It could be well spent elsewhere.
Many of these sites are no longer 'public' as people do not wish to use them.
Taken from morethanjustamother.
com- Toilet Training on the move
As we passed each layby, turning or otherwise suitable opening, I slowed to a crawl to give the Toddler ample time to flag up any toileting needs. In between loo-stopportunities I slammed my foot down on the accelerator, like a child racing between the last two stools in a game of Musical Chairs. Inevitably, just as I committed myself to joining the dual carriage-way, he piped up; “Mummy -I-need-a-wee-NOW!
Now, I know this stretch of the A40 like the back of my hand, and I know enough local gossip to avoid a particular lay-by. The one fast approaching, and the only available place to pull over safely enough for an emergency wee. Please don’t think me remotely bigoted, or at all reluctant to engage with all sectors of the community, but if you Google this particular Oxford lay-by you will find it features in a variety of Dogging sites (not of the Crufts variety, if you get my drift), several Cruising guides (no, not of the Mediteranean type), and a fair few Cottaging blogs (and no, not of the holiday-home ilk). So you can perhaps see why I was reluctant to expose my children (not to mention my childrens’ bits) to a beauty spot of ill repute. However, needs must when the devil’s threatening to wee on your gearstick, so I gingerly pulled over, extracted the Toddler from his central seat and pulled down his pants the bare minimum amount necessary to permit a standing up wee against the……



Close them or put attendants in them and charge, but if they are supposed to be PUBLIC toilets then sort it out.

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Andrew:Oxford says...
12:49pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Oafie...

I hope you weren't checking these sites out at work!

Report this post »

oafie says...
1:04pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Most definitely not- but I do wonder how so many men seem to have jobs where they can spend hours a day in a lay by- still looking at some of the cars, I doubt they are in jobs where they need worry!

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Kennys hat says...
3:55pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Brilliant planning - close the toilets in the abbey Meadows which is one of the few places in the summer people can take their children to that doesn't cost the earth. Perhaps the council will introduce a "wee fee" to use the swimming pool toilets and thus raise extra money on top of that they are saving my closing the toilets.

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Grunden Skip says...
4:03pm Wed 23 Jan 13

One of the complaints from visitors who were interviewed by the Hidden Britain researchers was the the toilet facilities in Abingdon were poor and poorly signposted.

Whenever I travel and am a visitor to any major city in the World, you are lucky to find a public Loo, let alone a free one. Maybe the way to go is to follow the rest of the world (except The U.S. Too prudish that lot) with their cheap and cheerful Pissoirs. Yes there are female versions too.

Report this post »

shipscat says...
5:08pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Oafie...

I hope you weren't checking these sites out at work!
Andrew Think Oafie has as wee problem but dont tell anybody ;-)

Report this post »

shipscat says...
5:08pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Oafie...

I hope you weren't checking these sites out at work!
Andrew Think Oafie has as wee problem but dont tell anybody ;-)

Report this post »

Feelingsmatter says...
6:35pm Wed 23 Jan 13

I hope they're taking the p***.

Report this post »

oafie says...
8:09pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Actually I have a problem with the diabolical waste of public monies.
The fact that public facilities should be there for the public....we are paying for them.
I also think I have a right to choose whether I see men masturbating each other in toilets, or in their cars in such areas.
Incidentally both are criminal offences so why are gay men immune from the law it would seem?
Shipscat you should check out what council tax payers pay for these facilities

Report this post »

Andrew:Oxford says...
9:25pm Wed 23 Jan 13

oafie wrote:
Actually I have a problem with the diabolical waste of public monies.
The fact that public facilities should be there for the public....we are paying for them.
I also think I have a right to choose whether I see men masturbating each other in toilets, or in their cars in such areas.
Incidentally both are criminal offences so why are gay men immune from the law it would seem?
Shipscat you should check out what council tax payers pay for these facilities
Did you dial 999 and report a crime in progress when you were monitoring them?

Report this post »

Mark L. says...
8:16am Thu 24 Jan 13

We used the Public toilets in Faringdon Car Park recently. My Children were busting and couldn't wait till we got home. Guess in future I will just let them pee in the car park.

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colbart says...
9:17am Thu 24 Jan 13

The Abbey Meadows toilets are already closed, 'out of season' (Winter).at the same time as the Swimming Pool is boarded up.

With the proposed Hydro project and visitor centre (at the lock end of the park), do they really want to close the only toilets?.

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colbart says...
9:24am Thu 24 Jan 13

Oafie, have you actually been in to the Abbey Meadows, they are closed 7 months of the year, and are in a diabolical state of repair....yet the lights are always on, when I pass????.

As for attendants in loos, there used to be one in the Multi Storey Carpark many years ago.

Botley and Abingdon are both planned to be demolished, (under VOWHDC plans), how much money will they make from the developers when supermarkets are built on both sites??.

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Abberdon says...
10:39am Thu 24 Jan 13

Can our council officers be serious? Sack a few of them to save that money instead.

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oafie says...
11:33am Thu 24 Jan 13

Andrew

The police say they can not enforce any law unless they catch someone in the act......ie if you're a witness presumably that is not good enough for the police these days.
The say they do not wish to been seen as discriminating against gay people.

I was told by a PCSO.....does it really matter if they shut the toilet door.......I don't know Andrew does it really matter if other offences eg domestic abuse takes place behind closed doors. One role that TVP have is that it seems to be up to them when and if they feel like enforcing the law. Other police officers don't even seem to know the law! and say they cannot do anything! Of course none of this covers what I was told by one man using the toilets! He said he was a policeman! And no that has not been investigated either!

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Abingdon Neil says...
6:03pm Thu 24 Jan 13

This is an appalling proposal.

I guess the Tory Councillors have never taken young children to Abbey Meadow or into the town centre?

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Man on the Green says...
10:27am Fri 25 Jan 13

Bonkers! And almost certainly in blatant contradiction with the DDA which requires local authorities to ensure that the provision for disabled people is not worsened by any planning proposal, and it is a sad but well known fact that the elderly, less mobile and people with many types of disability are more prone to "urgency" (a sudden pressing need to wee), and moreover are unable to walk long distances to find a suitably equipped loo.

As for the well-named "oafie", I don't find his comments "remotely bigoted"; on the contrary I find them blatantly bigoted and indeed in all likelihood actionable. Certainly such obsessive prejudice and discrimination should in my opinion have no place on these pages, and I would urge the site owner to remove them. My (lay) advice to oafie himself would be to seek a psychiatric referral from his doctor for assessment. I feel very sorry for him that he is so consumed by these thoughts.

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Abberdon says...
10:55am Fri 25 Jan 13

It's only illegal for Roman Catholics to masturbate, unless they are priests.

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the wizard says...
10:44pm Fri 25 Jan 13

Closing toilets is a small minded idea reflected in the attitude of the councilors that thought of it. Perhaps they would like to address the issue of evolution so people don't need to spend a penny. Indeed the money spent prior to a "Royal" visit anywhere so that the "Royals" can spend a penny should they need to is a huge amount, BUT, tax payers, council tax payers, visitors and people in general are to be deprived of the right. Do we employ idiots to come to these mind boggling decisions, idiots, total idiots, do they have a shared brain cell among them, or did they leave it at home so a family member could use it.
Pray what facilities are to be made available for the disabled who struggle as it is, or are they to be denied the right to exercise nature. What price is to be put on decency against humiliation, legally required to supply toilets or not, it remains a bodily function, the need should be plain and beyond question.

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Abberdon says...
1:07am Sat 26 Jan 13

Hang on a moment Wizard!

This is what the story says:

"Officers at Vale of White Horse District Council have suggested closing all remaining public conveniences the authority provides."

Now, we may well not be blessed by elected officials with two synapses between them but this idea was not generated by them but by the staff, employed to serve the elected buffoonery, the 'council officers'.

The test for the elect, is whether they demand resignations from the authors of the suggestion, or simply rubber stamp it as they do with most suggestions from 'council officers'.

Let's be fair here and give our elected reps the chance to say 'Non!'.

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Lord Palmerstone says...
5:49am Sat 26 Jan 13

All who use the M25 regularly have a water bottle with the top cut off for the 3 hour snarl ups. The contents are usually tipped out on the road but if the councillors close the bogs , then maybe the forecourt of the council offices on a day the Council meets....
Councils have "Chief Executives" (Head Clerk) who cost more than 110K with NI and pension contributions. They add no value since councils are simply the creatures of government carrying out its diktat. I know they wouldn't suggest their own demise but councillors can get rid of them , not replace them, and get re-elected by happy voters. Bargain!
And as for "Man on the Green"-is he Gordon Brown? What a sensitive soul.Yes, anyone expressing a view you don't like should be censored-ideally sent to a concentration camp; I get it.

Report this post »

Grunden Skip says...
6:26am Sat 26 Jan 13

oafie wrote:
Wish other councils would do the same-
Public Toilets should be just that, Many are unfortunately dominated by those wishing to use them for sexual activities.
There are no qualms about advertising them and Oxon County Council awarded a grant to Terence Higgins Trust to provide health education services in such 'public sex environments'. Want to know where I.m talking about if you don't already. They advertise wildly enough
cruising gays.com
oxfordshirecruisng
thegayuk.com
swingingheaven.co.uk


or just check out lay bys and toilets on the A40- Oxfordshire.
Councils are spending vast sums of money on cleaning, maintaining and clearly up the rubbish left behind at these sites- It could be well spent elsewhere.
Many of these sites are no longer 'public' as people do not wish to use them.
Taken from morethanjustamother.

com- Toilet Training on the move
As we passed each layby, turning or otherwise suitable opening, I slowed to a crawl to give the Toddler ample time to flag up any toileting needs. In between loo-stopportunities I slammed my foot down on the accelerator, like a child racing between the last two stools in a game of Musical Chairs. Inevitably, just as I committed myself to joining the dual carriage-way, he piped up; “Mummy -I-need-a-wee-NOW!
�
�Now, I know this stretch of the A40 like the back of my hand, and I know enough local gossip to avoid a particular lay-by. The one fast approaching, and the only available place to pull over safely enough for an emergency wee. Please don’t think me remotely bigoted, or at all reluctant to engage with all sectors of the community, but if you Google this particular Oxford lay-by you will find it features in a variety of Dogging sites (not of the Crufts variety, if you get my drift), several Cruising guides (no, not of the Mediteranean type), and a fair few Cottaging blogs (and no, not of the holiday-home ilk). So you can perhaps see why I was reluctant to expose my children (not to mention my childrens’ bits) to a beauty spot of ill repute. However, needs must when the devil’s threatening to wee on your gearstick, so I gingerly pulled over, extracted the Toddler from his central seat and pulled down his pants the bare minimum amount necessary to permit a standing up wee against the……



Close them or put attendants in them and charge, but if they are supposed to be PUBLIC toilets then sort it out.
cheers oafie, I have a mate who's very bi-curious, but he didn't know what to do about it. I've given him the directions for his sat nav (A40 layby) and he will give it a go. Thanks once more, you may just have given him a new life. but it has got me thinking. If the council were to construct purpose built public toilets for that specific purpose with clear signs and charge say £10 entry, then they would make a fortune. It may well be living off of immoral earnings, but I am sure that they can create a by-law to make it legal.

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Lord Palmerstone says...
8:50am Sat 26 Jan 13

It is gut wrenching but I briefly looked at one of those websites and I'm struggling to see how a website which encourages or incites to commit a serious criminal offence, outraging public decency, is any different from one inviting the public to join in the activities which the 7 defendants at the Old Bailey are standing trial for.
Is it time for Ms. Thornton to stop answering the phone at Thames Valley Police and tell the service providers to take down the criminal websites? WAKE UP THORNTON. Please email TVP now.

Report this post »

oafie says...
5:10pm Sat 26 Jan 13

MAN ON THE GREEN

As for the well-named "oafie", I don't find his comments "remotely bigoted"; on the contrary I find them blatantly bigoted and indeed in all likelihood actionable. Certainly such obsessive prejudice and discrimination should in my opinion have no place on these pages, and I would urge the site owner to remove them. My (lay) advice to oafie himself would be to seek a psychiatric referral from his doctor for assessment. I feel very sorry for him that he is so consumed by these thoughts.

There is absolutely nothing bigoted or discriminatory about stating FACTs you twerp...............
.Many people need to use public toilets legimately and are prevented from doing so in those that are 'public sex environments' Likewise the facilities for the disbaled in the particular toilets I have referred to has no disabled parking spaces anymore.

Has your tiny brain considered that the reason I know about this situation is because of an enitely legitmate reason......... I am faced with it day in and day out.
Get a grip- if cottagers want to advertise including submitting their photos on websites in addition to having their dicks out in a public place..............w
hy do I not have the right to express my view

Report this post »

oafie says...
5:23pm Sat 26 Jan 13

cheers oafie, I have a mate who's very bi-curious, but he didn't know what to do about it. I've given him the directions for his sat nav (A40 layby) and he will give it a go. Thanks once more, you may just have given him a new life. but it has got me thinking. If the council were to construct purpose built public toilets for that specific purpose with clear signs and charge say £10 entry, then they would make a fortune. It may well be living off of immoral earnings, but I am sure that they can create a by-law to make it legal.

Grundon Skip- I have suggested almost the very same to the council-if they charged for parking too, they would probably have enough to provide an extension to the toilets .............I have no problem with the council providing such facilities, but they should just be honest about it, where they are and let the rest of us persecuted heterosexuals pee in peace and make an informed choice.

PS apologies for my earlier spelling mistake....in my earlier post .I do hope it did not cause offence to anyone who does or does not have an English Language qualification.

PS I believe that SODC spend in excess of over 80,000 cleaning public toilets per annum in their area.
OCC recently spent in excess of over £5000 clearing up litter/including numerous used condoms from this area.

Report this post »

oafie says...
5:36pm Sat 26 Jan 13

PS Man on the Green

DDA has been defunct for some time.catch up.......We have the Equality Act 2010, and hey I am a Psychiatrist!

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Grunden Skip says...
4:10am Sun 27 Jan 13

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
It is gut wrenching but I briefly looked at one of those websites and I'm struggling to see how a website which encourages or incites to commit a serious criminal offence, outraging public decency, is any different from one inviting the public to join in the activities which the 7 defendants at the Old Bailey are standing trial for.
Is it time for Ms. Thornton to stop answering the phone at Thames Valley Police and tell the service providers to take down the criminal websites? WAKE UP THORNTON. Please email TVP now.
C'mon you know the reason, now if it were straight people having sex in a public toilet then Plod would be all over them. There's nowt so queer as folk.

Report this post »

Abberdon says...
9:39am Sun 27 Jan 13

Maybe Plod is queer and doesn't fancy the straight folk and their sexual antics?

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oafie says...
3:49pm Sun 27 Jan 13

Abberdon wrote:
It's only illegal for Roman Catholics to masturbate, unless they are priests.
Public Offences Act 2010 applies to everyone, as does the criminal offence of Public Nuisance the principles of which are that 'a public place' is such if it is easily observable to any one who may be passing.

Report this post »

Grunden Skip says...
9:03pm Sun 27 Jan 13

oafie wrote:
Abberdon wrote:
It's only illegal for Roman Catholics to masturbate, unless they are priests.
Public Offences Act 2010 applies to everyone, as does the criminal offence of Public Nuisance the principles of which are that 'a public place' is such if it is easily observable to any one who may be passing.
oafie, cast your mind back to 1981 (i think) and Fun Boy Three. Their Song, The Lunatics. It now seems that, their song may have come true. All minorities have a kind of protection from the law and their voices are heard, when the voices from the majority are not. So have same sex, well.... sex in a public place and all is well, burn the flag of the Union at a rememberance day parade, and all is well. But suggest that buggery in a public place is not in order and you will be vilified. Say that it is wrong to burn our flag and you will be labelled a "racialist" by the same idiots. What is the point in even trying?

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orangefoot says...
5:33pm Tue 29 Jan 13

From a comment on the Abingdon Blog by Matthew Barber, it seems that the Opposition Leader, Richard Webber is stirring up trouble where it is not certain that this proposal is even firmly on the table. The budget has not yet been published so this is just scaremongering.

What is wrong with these negative Abingdonians? Can you please stop kicking the town all the time when it is actually a good place to live and a few tweaks will improve it for everyone.

Yes, I do mean you, Mr Webber.

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shipscat says...
6:58pm Tue 29 Jan 13

"What is wrong with these negative Abingdonians? Can you please stop kicking the town all the time when it is actually a good place to live and a few tweaks will improve it for everyone."

Could not agree more orangefoot they do like to moan now and again and again and.........

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Abingdon Neil says...
11:55am Wed 30 Jan 13

orangefoot - the proposal certainly is 'firmly on the table'.

It has been published in a list of potential savings in the Vale Council's budget papers.

If there was no chance of it being implemented Matthew barber could have simply told the Council staff to take it off the list.

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