Pensioners fear they have lost hundreds in insurance scam (From Herald Series)

If he is as gulible as this, thank god he is a past chairman of Milton Parish Council.

dave from witney !!!! you are cruel, lol, funny tho : D
i do feel sorry for the couple tho, hope they get through ths, CHINS UP you two !

No one tells you how you should claim back your PPI money from the banks, though. NatWest conned me into PPI when my credit card details were stolen a few years ago. I soon realized that it was a waste of time, but no one ever answers the phone number via which you can theoretically cancel it, so I have paid for a second two years!

I am sorry for these people who have paid what was asked and have nothing in return. It is rather like the Government freezing the pensions of those who retire to certain countries around the world. All pensioners have paid their dues to the NI fund as they had no option but in retirement to the wrong country they are denied any increases ever. 1 in 25 pensioners worldwide are cheated by this government by tjis freezing policy which is criminal. Who heads this theft which is akin to the scam mentioned here - David Cameron of course. Living in the UK or the EU or the USA all pensioners receive their full uprated pension but those in the countries mainly affected like Canada, NZ, Australia , S.Africa, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia and the list goes on....they are frozen. Why ?
There is no logical or financial reason for this diabolical treatment. I would ask the local people to question their MP regarding this absurd and demeaning policy that is sending pensioners into poverty.

SNJ wrote:
No one tells you how you should claim back your PPI money from the banks, though. NatWest conned me into PPI when my credit card details were stolen a few years ago. I soon realized that it was a waste of time, but no one ever answers the phone number via which you can theoretically cancel it, so I have paid for a second two years!

I stopped phoning my banks for queries years ago. Anything that can't be done on-line I put in writing and hand in at my local branch (or post it in if more convenient).

It's a surprisingly quick and effective way of doing something and probably wouldn't take you any more time than typing up your response to the comments here.

It is a more expensive way for your bank to handle queries and complaints though - as it does tend to be more experienced people who handle written complaints.

Our sympathy is extended to Ann and George Strange regarding their Insurance scam! As one definition of a scam is failure to provide the service or goods for which money has been accepted, the UK Government is guilty of continuing to perpetrate a long-term, indefensible scam on over half a million of its very own pensioners. These are, of course, the "frozen" pensioners who, despite having paid National Insurance contributions during their entire working lives, are discriminately (and without prior warning) deprived of their entitlement to indexed pensions when they move to certain countries - ironically, largely, but certainly not only, those of the British Commonwealth. Why do anti-scam laws not apply to the Government?

Morgeo and frozen in calgary, your comments have no relevance to the story above,and using it to put forward a political rant helps no-one, least of all the couplewho have suffered the loss.

morgeo and frozen in calgary's comments highlight the fact that scammers walk amonst us in all forms. Whether they are unscrupulous individuals or government ministers. The taking of money with a promise or guarantee of a certain result when in fact the opposite happens is indefensible.
It would seem that pensioners are taken advantage of over and over again and how these people sleep at night beggars belief.
When government ministers do this with impunity without any risk of legal repercussions is it any wonder the scumbags who have cheated Mr and Mrs Strange feel it's an "OK" thing to do. There was a time when wrongdoers were thrown in the tower, something to be said for doing that, and some time spent in the stocks gave the "peasants" some satisfaction and helped to dispose of rotten eggs and veg. I say bring back both those means of justice. David Cameron and Steve Webb, those most well known of scammers, ie the frozen pension scandal, should be first in the line.

aliej , you are totally wrong in what you say. I would ask if you knew about the freezing of some pensioners pensions. Did you know this before making your comment ? If you did then you are in the minority and this government policy affects so many. I assume that you are an honest man doing an honest job and paying your taxes and your NI fund which is taken out of your pay because it is mandatory, and you will expect your full uprated pension wherever you decide to go in retirement. And so you should. Maybe you would appreciate it better if you had family living abroad and wish to join them when the time comes. If it is a frozen country then you have a problem. Do you think that is fair ? Why should the country of your choice in retirement be decided by the government ?
This unfortunate couple lost a few hundred pounds and that is dreadful and they did'nt deserve that. Many of the frozen pensioners have lost thousands of pounds through this discrimination and are more than just staring poverty in the face and they don't deserve that either. When you are dealing with crooks but don't know it that is very bad and and they have every sympathy of everyone reading this news article I'm sure. When a similar thing is done by your elected representatives in parliament who are supposed to be gentlemen and ladies with honesty and integrity, then everyone should know about it and we intend to try and tell them.

With reference to the comment from aliej the plight of the frozen pensioner is very relevant to this story - it is a scam against the most vulnerabe in our society, the retired UK citizen.
I have a lot of sympathy for the couple, Mr. and Mrs Strange, and also admire their courage in making their story public (and open to the idiotic remarks offered by the likes of "dave in Witney").
The big difference however that has been pointed out was that they were duped out of their money despite the many warnings about the existence of such scams. The frozen pensioner had to make the mandatory contributions and was given no warning that they would be discriminated against - only told when the first payment was made; so much for governments advising to plan and budget for one'ss retirment!
Morgeo, Frozen in Calgary and janeybird you are right in what you say and just as the scammers like those who robbed Mr. and Mrs Strange should be brought to justice so, too should those who opersate the frozen pensions policy - justice in this case being the abolition of the regulation. Cameron, Clegg, Osborne and Webb have all in the past recognised publicly that it is wrong to discriminate in this manner but, now they are in a position to remedy the issue, typicaly no action.
Scams are wrong no matter who operates them.

I am coming back to make one more comment. If those of you reading this are concerned about what has been said in respect of the freezing of a minority of pensioners living abroad, then write to your MP about it and see what they say. Then you can write a letter to this paper and let us all know the outcome. Incidentally , if Anne and George Strange are following this then I would suggest that if they bought these vouchers by using a credit card, then they should contact the bank who issued the card as soon as possible and they may be able to help them. My wife ordered an item by phone after an ad on TV and the item came through no problem but on checking our statement we found that there were other withdrawals which we had not authorised. Our bank stopped any future payments and refunded the false amount charged. A good bank will do that. Good luck to you both.

For the "foreigners" whining about their UK state pensions... Why not repatriate to the UK and perhaps enjoy the full value? Or when you balance your life in your new country with the pension, is life still better in foreign parts?

It is my NI contributions now that are paying for your earned benefits. Much like your NI contributions funded your ancestors - I'd rather that the pensioners who remain in the UK and spend their income in the UK had the maximum benefit.

I think you'll find that most of these overseas pensioners will repatriate, just as soon as they need some expensive medical care..

Andrew: Oxford Perhaps you can justify the payment of the annual increase to those who are resident in, for example, the United States of America, the Phillipines, Turkey, Israel and yet deny it to those who live now in Australia, Canada and Thailand. Those in the first group contributed under exactly the same terms and conditions as those in the frozen second group. Should they not be allowed to withdraw from the fund under the same terms and conditions now they are in retirement? People's reasons for emigrating are personal and should not be seen by government as some form of justification for what is nothing more than blatant dicrimination. It is not for you, Andrew, nor the government to tell the pensioner where or how they should spend their income and the NIN Act makes no such stipulation. What you prefer is not relevant. what is relevant is that frozen pensioners are asking for is fairness, justice and equality with their UK counterpart.
I hope when you come to retire, Andrew, you remember that the government will, by your definition, be able to discriminate against you as, of course, it will be the children of your generation who will be funding your pension not you. Sounds fair?
By the way Anon Coward I think if you check your figures you will appreciate that very few ex-pats do return to the UK for medical treatment and that as an arguement for freezing pensions it, pardon the pun, don't hold water!

Why has this story turned into an irrelevant political rant??

I feel sorry for the couple who got scammed, but ultimately, they only have their own lack of common sense to blame. It was up to them to verify if the company was legit, and whether their deal was good. A couple of phonecalls would have told them that a legitimate company would not charge you a fee up front.

It is not a political rant Lady P. The couple, for whom we have, I think, expressed some sympathy advised of a scam. It was brought to the attention of the Oxford Mail readers that while this was a disgrace it is one that is and has been practiced on a daily basis by successive governments over the last sixty years.
If Oxford Mail readers are against discrimination and scams there is no bigger or better example of this than frozen pensions. Ask you MP what he or she thinks and believe me Lady P you will become better placed to know what is and is not relevant!

RobtheFox wrote:
Andrew: Oxford Perhaps you can justify the payment of the annual increase to those who are resident in, for example, the United States of America, the Phillipines, Turkey, Israel and yet deny it to those who live now in Australia, Canada and Thailand. Those in the first group contributed under exactly the same terms and conditions as those in the frozen second group. Should they not be allowed to withdraw from the fund under the same terms and conditions now they are in retirement? People's reasons for emigrating are personal and should not be seen by government as some form of justification for what is nothing more than blatant dicrimination. It is not for you, Andrew, nor the government to tell the pensioner where or how they should spend their income and the NIN Act makes no such stipulation. What you prefer is not relevant. what is relevant is that frozen pensioners are asking for is fairness, justice and equality with their UK counterpart. I hope when you come to retire, Andrew, you remember that the government will, by your definition, be able to discriminate against you as, of course, it will be the children of your generation who will be funding your pension not you. Sounds fair? By the way Anon Coward I think if you check your figures you will appreciate that very few ex-pats do return to the UK for medical treatment and that as an arguement for freezing pensions it, pardon the pun, don't hold water!

I know full well that by the time I retire at the age of 72 there'll be little left in "the pot".

Fairness, justice and equality. Sounds good, you can enjoy that too when you return to the UK, rejoin the democratic process and vote for a government that will send more money out of the UK to foreign pensioners.

At least, whilst in Canada you can enjoy buying fuel at CAD1.30 per litre. When you return you can brace yourself for paying circa CAD1.95 per litre.

Andrew Oxford
1. The current surplus (note the word surplus) in the NI Fund, Andrew:Oxford is £38 BILLION - yes - BILLION. As it is ring fenced in order to borow it the government has to pay interest which is around £1.5 Billion a year and more than enough to pay the frozen pensioner balance twice over. I think therefore when you are of pensionble age the pot will still hold enough for you.
2. I am not a foreign pensioner I am a UK citizen who currently resides abroad. I contibuted for the full 44 year qualifying period - yes 44 not the 30 you can get away with now - all that I was required and legally obliged to pay into the NI Fund. Would you now like to answer the question I posed to you earlier - why should retired UK citizens living in the USA or Israel get preferential pension terms over someone living in Australia or Canada?
3.Why should I be worried about the cost of fuel in Canada?
I have never even been there.
4. You can knock one of the "thumbs up" signs off your last comment - I hit the wrong button in my anger at your ignorance of the frozen pension issue.

I'm calling out RobtheFox, morgeo, janeybird & Frozen in Calgary as being multiple accounts used by the same person.

The evidence:
1) VERY similar writing style. Big blocks of text, no lines between paragraphs etc..
2) All complicit in the same political rant completely unrelated to the story.
3) All "agreeing" with each other's posts. Typical behaviour of a poster using multiple sock puppets.
4) All their posts had 4 thumbs up, probably voting for each other.

Also, from a quick glance at other threads "Myron Blatz" and "bodchris " seem to exhibit the same Modus Operandi.

Could all these new identities be the latest tactic of our old chum "Lord" Peter McVey who got sick of seeing all his comments instantly downvoted whenever he posted?

Wrong call Captain J...all different people but, if you were aware of the campaign to unfreeze these pensions, you would not be surprised that their arguements follow the same pattern

and if you agree with what someone has said why not give them a thumbs up?

Sorry I am a fairly new poster to the Oxford Mail so I'm afraid the name Lord Peter McVey means nothing to me.

So, as you are quite wrong in your calling out Captain J I'm afraid you get a thumbs down from RobtheFox but thanks for reading it all - hope you now understand the nature of the discrimination we suffer and that it is of course relevant to the main story - robbing pensioners is a crime whoever commits it.

Captain J - Your assumptions are both arrogant and totally wrong. Of course we frozen pensioners are all on the same wavelength, we have all been, (and continue to be) scammed out of thousands of pounds (and our dignity) by the very government to which we paid our mandatory National Insurance contributions for decades. We were always well aware, and alert to, the fact that scams abound - but we never dreamed we would be scammed by our very own Government of "Great" Britain!

Anon Coward wrote:
I think you'll find that most of these overseas pensioners will repatriate, just as soon as they need some expensive medical care..

Sorry, Anon Coward, totally wrong conception of the standing of the expat returning for hospital treatment as the only free treatment you would get would be for any illness or accident that occurred during your stay. Existing medical issues are not covered and would have to be paid for which is why we have to purchase insurance to cover the period that we are in UK.
As for the suggestion that we are one person, Captain J, we are different people who live literally oceans apart but have come together as we all have a common commitment to dispel the false arguments that are given regarding the state pension and especially the freezing of them in some countries and not others.
I have never met RobtheFox or Frozen in Calgary or any others that have posted on here but I thank them for their support.

Yeah, but you would say that.

I'm just not buying the "coincidence" that 4 different people could just start spewing the exact same political diatribe on a completely unrelated news story.

Yes but we would say that for one very good reaon Captain J because IT IS TRUE we have never met, we fight the same fight, we use the same weapons. We are as has been said oceans apart but united by a common cause.

Sorry if it is beyond your good manners to accept what has been told you; I cannot alter the truth of the fact we are not one and the same person.

What, so you conspired in advance to post the same political rant on completely unrelated local news stories?

If you want to people caring about your plight I suggest a new strategy. Posting under multiple sock puppet accounts on unrelated news stories isn't going to make people care.

Captain J wrote:
Yeah, but you would say that. I'm just not buying the "coincidence" that 4 different people could just start spewing the exact same political diatribe on a completely unrelated news story.

You don't have to buy anything Captain J as we freely give the information.
How strange that you condemn us for commenting on this story when you have made no contribution to the fact that Ann and George Strange were scammed, not even a sympathetic comment. Touche'.

Captain J., Your "conspiracy" allegation astounds me!! Are you a novelist, with such a vivid imagination? What you call a 'rant' is only our determined efforts to make Ministers - particularly our PM - openly acknowledge the truth of our situation. A Government that gets away with scamming over half a million of its fully-paid-up pensioners could well include you in its next target, and closed minds are the most vulnerable!!!

Sorry Captain J - I am prepared to exchange comments but not with those who simply wish to try (and fail) to discredit other contributers and do not have the decency to apologise when their assumptions are clearly wrong but actually have the audacity to accuse them of lying.
The couple in question were caught in a con. The frozen pension scandal is also a con with clear similarities. The highlighting of this has not debarred any other readers from adding their own views on the story of Mr. and Mrs Strange

Captain J wrote:
I'm calling out RobtheFox, morgeo, janeybird & Frozen in Calgary as being multiple accounts used by the same person.

The evidence:
1) VERY similar writing style. Big blocks of text, no lines between paragraphs etc..
2) All complicit in the same political rant completely unrelated to the story.
3) All "agreeing" with each other's posts. Typical behaviour of a poster using multiple sock puppets.
4) All their posts had 4 thumbs up, probably voting for each other.

That is a good analysis Captain J.

It's unlikely 4 different pensioners would have the same issues with their grammar, punctuation and typing.

Captain J - What we are hoping to achieve is JUSTICE - no more, no less than that. The Government could change its Frozen Pension Policy overnight, no miracle needed - just an HONEST acknowledgement, of the indefensible INJUSTICE is continues to perpetrate.
Oh, I shall not be spending any more time or effort on your own utterly wild ramblings.

For the attention of Captain J - and also Andrew:Oxford, perhaps - please note that your refusal to accept the truth and, in effect, label Frozen in Calgary, morgeo, Janeybird and myself as liars has not gone unnoticed.
It has therefore been reported as in my opinion, it now contravenes site rules - being false and abusive.

Frozen in Calgary wrote:
Captain J - What we are hoping to achieve is JUSTICE - no more, no less than that. The Government could change its Frozen Pension Policy overnight, no miracle needed - just an HONEST acknowledgement, of the indefensible INJUSTICE is continues to perpetrate.
Oh, I shall not be spending any more time or effort on your own utterly wild ramblings.

And how do you hope to achieve justice by spamming comment threads on completely unrelated news stories?

Are you hoping David Cameron reads this website? Well if he does, I'd hope he'll find it easier to spot your amateur attempts at sock-puppetry now I've pointed it out.

RobtheFox wrote:
For the attention of Captain J - and also Andrew:Oxford, perhaps - please note that your refusal to accept the truth and, in effect, label Frozen in Calgary, morgeo, Janeybird and myself as liars has not gone unnoticed.
It has therefore been reported as in my opinion, it now contravenes site rules - being false and abusive.

Great news, I hope they'll check your IP addresses while they're investigating. (That's the internet address of the computer that you're posting from).

Such ignorance, as dislayed here, about the frozen pension issue is why we as a small group comment about this and past governments discrimination of just 4% of the UK pensioner population. What makes a UK state pensioner in the USA, Israel or the Philippines, to name just three, more entitled to annual increases than a pensioner in New Zealand, Falkland Islands or Canada? Answer, none, ALL have paid into the NI fund for 40 odd years ALL are entitled to annual uprating. If anyone doesn't get that then one has to assume ignorance when it comes to a sense of justice. A private pension provider would not be allowed to treat policy holders in this way, refusing to pay out just because of ones address.
As for the ignorant comment about British citizens becoming foreigners because they live in another country just displays a low interlect.
We are British citizens who have paid into the UK tax system, and are still paying tax, for more than 40 years...our entitlement to a state pension should not be dependant on where we live.

And when they find out we are all from different IP addresses separated by thousands of miles WILL YOU HAVE THE GUTS AND DECENCY TO APOLOGISE?

Yes, if you could provide conclusive proof I would of course have the guts and decency to apologise. I would probably even give you the benefit of the doubt that you did't know how to use a proxy server.

However, I would still be interested to know how 4 people with the same political agenda, writing style and grammar, and who are apparently "thousands of miles apart" just happened to decide to start posting the same argument on an unrelated news story.

ps. apologies to George and Ann Strange derailing comments about their own PPI plight.

RobtheFox wrote:
For the attention of Captain J - and also Andrew:Oxford, perhaps - please note that your refusal to accept the truth and, in effect, label Frozen in Calgary, morgeo, Janeybird and myself as liars has not gone unnoticed.
It has therefore been reported as in my opinion, it now contravenes site rules - being false and abusive.

I think you'll find my comment is absolutely accurate, I am delighted to repeat it for your analysis.

It's unlikely 4 different pensioners would have the same issues with their grammar, punctuation and typing.

Lady Penelopee wrote:
Why has this story turned into an irrelevant political rant??

I feel sorry for the couple who got scammed, but ultimately, they only have their own lack of common sense to blame. It was up to them to verify if the company was legit, and whether their deal was good. A couple of phonecalls would have told them that a legitimate company would not charge you a fee up front.

It took me a moment or two, but the following "individuals" always post together on various forums and comment sections...

"Morgeo" - "George Morley"
"Janeybird" - "Jane Davies"
"RobtheFox" - "Andrew Robertson-Fox"

"bagochips" - "Jeff Chips" hasn't posted for a while.

Oops. Sorry Lady P - I didn't intend to quote you there.

Andrew:Oxford I have reported you for releasing our names without our permission....we await your and Captain J's apology.

We of course allow YOU to retain your anonymity for now.

Mr and Mrs Strange, I'm sorry our mutual suffering has caused some nasty comments we are only interested in getting justice for all pensioners who seem to be sort targets by certain lowlife and Ministers of HM Government.

janeybird wrote:
Andrew:Oxford I have reported you for releasing our names without our permission....we await your and Captain J's apology.

We of course allow YOU to retain your anonymity for now.

Mr and Mrs Strange, I'm sorry our mutual suffering has caused some nasty comments we are only interested in getting justice for all pensioners who seem to be sort targets by certain lowlife and Ministers of HM Government.

It's your personal choice to publish your names and pseudonyms in a linkable format across various sites.

It was very helpful that you always publish your comments together, on the same sites within a short time of each other. These included letters to the Witney Gazette, Twitter profiles, coments on the Daily Telegraph website, various pension sites and so forth.

That's an apology...is it?

Mr and Mrs Strange - I'm very sorry that you've suffered at the hands of a pension scammer, and I hope that you can recoup your hard earned money. Lord knows it's hard enough to come by these days!!

I must apologize for the behaviour of certain blind "individuals" who obviously cannot see further than their A:O & Capt J nose.

To Andrew:Oxford and Captain J (but who are probably the same person, judging by the way "they" have judged us)

According to you I'm a bit late joining in this debate which has become close to a slander on your part. So I hope that you and you will forgive my tardiness, and accept my comment as coming not from any of the names that you've disgracefully decided to mention publicly, but from me, myself and I.

You had no right whatsoever to name me or anyone else on this site - or to tell others what sites I or anyone else frequent. What sense do you have to decend into areas like that to further your argument? It just shows a severe lack of understanding on your part about the issue being discussed,

Couldn't you stay with the argued facts as presented and argue against them? No - obviously not - because you descened into unfathomable and unforgivable territory.

To assume that I - RobtheFox - Janeybird - Frozen in Calgary and Morgeo are one and the same person shows how little intelligence you have - especially if you can only see one individual behind all the comments expressed here.

You are quite correct when you state that RobtheFox - Janeybird - Morgeo - Frozen in Calgary and myself hold the same views. There are another approx 554,000 other British expat pensioners on the surface of this planet that hold the same views - but perhaps aren't so determined as we are (or have the means) to express them.

So I have some questions for you......

Would it be beyond the realms of possiblity - that all the people who have showed support here for the fight against the frozen pension - to all belong to the same British expat organization or group??

Would it be too much for you to believe that they communicate with one another - so they can sympathize and tell readers of articles such as this - about their own struggle against the discrimination being practised by the UK goverment - with regard to the current pension policy??

Is it too much for you take in that people who are being victimized (by anyone) can now get together to fight back - just as we are doing now??

Can you not accept that in this day and age of rapid communications - that people from all over the world are able (quite easily) to coordinate their efforts into refuting idiotic statements (like yours) whenever the need arises??

You might be able to perform internet searches that turn up our profiles, but I've no intention of wasting my time to show yours - what would be the point? My point is my arguement - I don't need to go to depths like you've just done.

While I sincerely sympathize with Mr and Mrs Strange's loss of their valuable pension - the comparisons made here between a private pension scammer and a government pension scammer are very relevant - and very important to every British citizen - including yourself. And if we've been able to help you (or anyone else) understand why we're doing what we are - then our time isn't being wasted - except maybe on you!

Believe me - we will use every opportunity to tell as many people as we can (not just the good people of Oxford) that this cruel situation exists - and hopefully it will prevent some from falling into the same "frozen" trap that we did.

I must also take this opportunity to thank the Oxford Mail (and all the other media you mentioned) for the generous use of their forums. Hopefully the British tradition of free speech will not be impeded by A:O & Capt J and the stupid use of practices best left to the back of a toilet door.

Oh, for goodness sake, you're on the internet. It's public. You made your own names public. Surely when you attended the internet for silver surfers course they told you that much. Do you honestly think anyone's reading all your tedious drivel? Those of us who are still working our socks off in the UK are struggling to buy food and fuel. Homes are being repossessed, jobs being lost. No-one cares about anything except where their next meal and tank of petrol is coming from. They certainly don't care about you.

Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford!

I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person.

The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future.

As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

online_reader wrote:
Oh, for goodness sake, you're on the internet. It's public. You made your own names public. Surely when you attended the internet for silver surfers course they told you that much. Do you honestly think anyone's reading all your tedious drivel? Those of us who are still working our socks off in the UK are struggling to buy food and fuel. Homes are being repossessed, jobs being lost. No-one cares about anything except where their next meal and tank of petrol is coming from. They certainly don't care about you.

Interesting is it not that online_reader asks if we believe if anybody is reading our tedious drivel and yet, Captain J and Andrew:Oxford have gone to great lengths to try and belittle and question the validity of our individul postings.

In fact is it not odd that online_reader his or herself deems it right to comment upon something they claim has not been read?

I find it very sad that I have contributed in good faith and yet rather than discuss the relevant merits or otherwise of my contribution there are some who seek only to distrust and discredit me. If you have concrete evidence for doing so then produce it. If you do not have such evidence then stop your absurd speculation and innuendo.

Firstly, I would commiserate with Mr & Mrs Strange, but must also congratulate them for having the guts to go public and acknowledge how gullible they were in the honest and laudable hope that others will avoid the same ate. It is in the nature of such scams that the scammers are extraordinarily plausible ad persuasive, and I have in the course of my work met many otherwise perfectly sensible and intelligent people who have found themselves in similar pickles.

Secondly, I fear that Morgeo and his Merry Men do themselves little good by behaving in this way, in fact quite the opposite. After looking into their situation a while ago, I came to the conclusion that they were being treated unfairly, but not illegally, and - most importantly - that they knew and were informed in advance about the consequences of the choice they took in relocating to countries where indexation did not apply.

As it happens, I am in a similar (though not identical) "reverse" situation as a result of having chosen to reside in the UK, and my pension would have been increased by indexation had I remained abroad; instead it has been frozen. It was a choice I made in full cognisance of the facts, and though I may from time to time grumble mildly about it to my family and friends, I accept - like any other contract I have entered into of my own free will - that the terms I agreed to, however inequitable they appear to me, are ones I signed up to.

Pouring invective on anyone who dares question their view or who might suggest that M & his MM protest a little too much is no way of winning friends and influencing people.

It reminds me of nothing more than the "little Englanders" who are surprised that the UK's point of view in matters European is sometimes treated with less than fawning deference, yet applaud every xenophobic remark about our European partners, and cheer when the Prime Minister snubs the German Chancellor. Talk about cutting one's nose off to spite one's face!

Thankyou mickeybear for your comment. The main reason for my comment regarding the frozen pensions is to enlighten the general public about this issue and to this end I will place a comment anywhwere when a similar subject is being discussed. As will my friends who have done so. You are aware of the freezing and that is good but you are wrong to say that everyone knew aboiut the freezing. I never knew when I started work that when the time came for retirement that my pension would be frozen if I retired to certain countries. Also you are wrong to say it was my choice because paying the NI payments was mandatory and we had no choice unlike your situation. Having paid the same payments as everyone else throughout my working life I expect to be treated like everyone else - well the 96% of those pensioners who do not get frozen that is. If you feel this is unreasonable then I would like to know why that is . For 1 in 25 pensioners to be denied their uprated pension is discrimination and illegal. Unfortunately for us the civil courts cannot rule on this as it is not a legal issue but a political one. The resolution to this problem lies solely in the hands of the politicians and they have no right to withhold a full pension under any circumstances. To just issue a leaflet when the time for retirement comes along is not acceptable. I had no idea during my working life that I would find myself in another country but circumstances change and it happened, actually due to the death of my wife.
Anyone who has any sense of justice and fairness would not support this policy.

Mickeybear, I too have already expressed my sympathy to Mr and Mrs Strange and, indeed congratulated them on their courage at going public but I am afraid that I must question much of the rest of you comment. It demonstrates that you really do not fully understand the frozen pension situation whatsoever.

You say "that they knew and were informed in advance about the consequences of their choice they took when relocating to countries where indexation did not apply".

That is quite untrue. It is one of the major complaints that no notification was given. Personally the first I was officially advised was with my entitlement notice which arrived four weeks after I had actually retired. Tht was after having been in frequent contact with the International Pensions Branch in Newcastle over the previous fifteen years who never mentioned it. If you had looked into this situation, as you say you have, I am very surprised that you did not identify this problem. You would also be aware that the Parliamentary Adviser to the International Consortium of British Pensioners, John Markham, has quite recently raised the failure of the DWP to warn potential emigrants of this policy.

The second point you make is that it is a contract; there is nothing in my"mandatory contract" that stipulated that I agree to a freezing if I reside in one country as opposed to another.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Europe; the frozen pension policy predates the EU in it earliest format. It is about UK citizen pensioners living abroad seeking equal treatment with UK citizen pensioners living in the UK. We contributed under the same terms and conditions when working; now, in retirement we seek to withdraw under the sme terms and conditions ; the country of residence has no relevance in this.



I am afraid Mickeybear that you are misinformed -

mickeybear: You are utterly wrong when you say "they knew and were informed in advance about the consequences of the choice they took in relocating to countries where indexation did not apply".
WE DID NOT KNOW - nor did the public, UNTIL certain frozen pensioners started opening eyes to the discriminatory freezing of pensions. The UK Government's Frozen Pension Policy was a closely guarded secret. Why else would we be claiming we have been scammed?

Museum revamp story:
"Julie Mayhew-Archer, chairman of Abingdon Town Council’s museum committee, said visits to the museum were expected to increase by 50 per cent." Whenever I used visit the Museum, I used more often than not find that I was the only visitor. Does a 50% increase mean that I am going to meet a third half of myself somewhere in amongst the exhibits? Or should I look in the lift?

Captain J wrote:
Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford!

I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person.

The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future.

As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

Thanks CJ

The posting at 10:16 last night clarifies the relationship somewhat with the use of "our" and "we". Clearly there is some form of formal arrangement in which they consent to respond as one on behalf of each online profile.

Sorry, I'm not in the employment industry. Having worked in fraud investigation (including private-pension fraud), my ethics are far too robust to work in that particular unregulated profession.

SNJ wrote:
No one tells you how you should claim back your PPI money from the banks, though. NatWest conned me into PPI when my credit card details were stolen a few years ago. I soon realized that it was a waste of time, but no one ever answers the phone number via which you can theoretically cancel it, so I have paid for a second two years!

Go have a look at MoneySavingExpert dot com (Martin Lewis), you'll find all the information you need there, and I believe there are even letter templates that can be printed off, and it's completely free.

There have been so many stories of people getting ripped off like this, and so many people telling others that it's a free service, don't had over money to anybody.
Martin Lewis himself is on TV and Radio very frequently, BBC Watchdog has even reported on these scams.
I honestly can't understand how people are still getting conned, unless they've been in a coma for a year or so.

Another scam to be aware of is MicroPC Solutions, who will claim to have got your details off Microsoft.
They'll ask for your credit/debit card details (in an Indian accent, as they're calling from India), and also ask you to go to the Teamviewer dot com website and run a program that allows them access to your PC.
They'll then tell you that you've got numerous thousands of viruses and you need to buy their antivirus package.
A friend got called a few weeks ago, but as I'd installed Eset Nod32 on his PC a week or so earlier, he called me and I was able to prevent his computer getting corrupted, and him ripped off.
The con was featured on Panorama this week, but they didn't give the name of the company.

I think it's hilarious that you still think we are one person. We are a group separated by many hundreds and in most cases thousands of miles. We have never met but are united in getting justice for the frozen few.

I will give you an example of this injustice. I lived in Hampshire at the time of the Falklands conflict, once the war was over Maggie Thatcher encouraged British citizens to go to the Falklands to increase the numbers and start businesses. I know of a family who did just that. They owned a local garage, selling fuel and doing car repairs. They upped sticks took their children and restarted the business in Stanley. All the while still paying their NI back in old blighty. Now of course here's the rub.....all the while the DWP was taking their money not one word was said about the Falklands being one of the frozen countries. Now of course their hard earned state pension is frozen at the amount of the first payment, never to increase. If you think that is right I feel sorry for you, because that means you have no empathy or moral compass. To add insult to injury David Cameron, in order to get votes, promised to end this illogical theft of pension money, but he has let down those pensioners who believed he was a man of his word. Hence the anger and frustration felt by the 4% who are forced into poverty and also forced to fight for their rights.

janeybird wrote:
I think it's hilarious that you still think we are one person. We are a group separated by many hundreds and in most cases thousands of miles. We have never met but are united in getting justice for the frozen few.

I will give you an example of this injustice. I lived in Hampshire at the time of the Falklands conflict, once the war was over Maggie Thatcher encouraged British citizens to go to the Falklands to increase the numbers and start businesses. I know of a family who did just that. They owned a local garage, selling fuel and doing car repairs. They upped sticks took their children and restarted the business in Stanley. All the while still paying their NI back in old blighty. Now of course here's the rub.....all the while the DWP was taking their money not one word was said about the Falklands being one of the frozen countries. Now of course their hard earned state pension is frozen at the amount of the first payment, never to increase. If you think that is right I feel sorry for you, because that means you have no empathy or moral compass. To add insult to injury David Cameron, in order to get votes, promised to end this illogical theft of pension money, but he has let down those pensioners who believed he was a man of his word. Hence the anger and frustration felt by the 4% who are forced into poverty and also forced to fight for their rights.

Are pensioners in Argentina subject to the same, understandable, terms?

If so, your friends will have a difficult choice to make when they decide upon their future vote.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

janeybird wrote: I think it's hilarious that you still think we are one person. We are a group separated by many hundreds and in most cases thousands of miles. We have never met but are united in getting justice for the frozen few. I will give you an example of this injustice. I lived in Hampshire at the time of the Falklands conflict, once the war was over Maggie Thatcher encouraged British citizens to go to the Falklands to increase the numbers and start businesses. I know of a family who did just that. They owned a local garage, selling fuel and doing car repairs. They upped sticks took their children and restarted the business in Stanley. All the while still paying their NI back in old blighty. Now of course here's the rub.....all the while the DWP was taking their money not one word was said about the Falklands being one of the frozen countries. Now of course their hard earned state pension is frozen at the amount of the first payment, never to increase. If you think that is right I feel sorry for you, because that means you have no empathy or moral compass. To add insult to injury David Cameron, in order to get votes, promised to end this illogical theft of pension money, but he has let down those pensioners who believed he was a man of his word. Hence the anger and frustration felt by the 4% who are forced into poverty and also forced to fight for their rights.

Are pensioners in Argentina subject to the same, understandable, terms? If so, your friends will have a difficult choice to make when they decide upon their future vote.

Andrew:Oxford - UK Citizens who have contributed to the UK NI Scheme and retire to Argentina are among those who have or will (under current regulations) have their State Retirement Pension frozen.
Irrespective of the outcome of their forthcoming vote those living in the Falkland Islands who are eligible for a State Retirement Pension will, of course, retain that right. The vote is not to determine the nationality of the individual only the wishes of those living there as to whether they wish to remain under UK rule or Argentian.
I have no idea what arrangements Argentina makes in respect of pensions for their own nationals - it is not relevant to the UK frozen pension situation.
.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

Captain J wrote: Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford! I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person. The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future. As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

Thanks CJ The posting at 10:16 last night clarifies the relationship somewhat with the use of "our" and "we". Clearly there is some form of formal arrangement in which they consent to respond as one on behalf of each online profile. Sorry, I'm not in the employment industry. Having worked in fraud investigation (including private-pension fraud), my ethics are far too robust to work in that particular unregulated profession.

Andrew:Oxford Can you be more explicit in identifying "the posting at 10.16 last night" please. I have no record of one at that time even after allowing for the difference in time zones.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

Captain J wrote: Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford! I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person. The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future. As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

Thanks CJ The posting at 10:16 last night clarifies the relationship somewhat with the use of "our" and "we". Clearly there is some form of formal arrangement in which they consent to respond as one on behalf of each online profile. Sorry, I'm not in the employment industry. Having worked in fraud investigation (including private-pension fraud), my ethics are far too robust to work in that particular unregulated profession.

Andrew:Oxford Can you be more explicit in identifying "the posting at 10.16 last night" please. I have no record of one at that time even after allowing for the difference in time zones.

Ok, perhaps the Date&Time are refreshed dynamically at the local address.

If you're using a good browser, right click on the page and choose "view page source".

The source text will then appear. There are 3500 lines of data and it does look a bit of a muddle, but you'll be able to scroll through and find the times which are stored locally adjacent to the command "genericdatetime".

Hope this helps.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

Captain J wrote: Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford! I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person. The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future. As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

Thanks CJ The posting at 10:16 last night clarifies the relationship somewhat with the use of "our" and "we". Clearly there is some form of formal arrangement in which they consent to respond as one on behalf of each online profile. Sorry, I'm not in the employment industry. Having worked in fraud investigation (including private-pension fraud), my ethics are far too robust to work in that particular unregulated profession.

Andrew:Oxford Can you be more explicit in identifying "the posting at 10.16 last night" please. I have no record of one at that time even after allowing for the difference in time zones.

Ok, perhaps the Date&Time are refreshed dynamically at the local address. If you're using a good browser, right click on the page and choose "view page source". The source text will then appear. There are 3500 lines of data and it does look a bit of a muddle, but you'll be able to scroll through and find the times which are stored locally adjacent to the command "genericdatetime". Hope this helps.

Thank you Andrew:Oxford.

In truth I found it easier to slowly scroll back and by a process of deduction and elimination located the posting by Janeybird. It would probably have been easier for you to simply say it was the one in which you were taken to task by her for the disclosure of personal information.

No matter. I had expected to find something of interest and relevance. I was wrong.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

Captain J wrote: Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford! I'm happy to admit that I'm now less certain that our pensioner strike force are all in fact the same person, but still not entirely convinced, so no apology yet. What is clear now is that they all do in fact know each other as part of some weird comment thread spamming organisation. All of their original accounts in their "Real" names could just as easily be the same person. The Oxford Mail should start posting the last few digits of poster's IP addresses so we can detect this behaviour more easily in future. As for the accusation of me being the same person as Andrew:Oxford, all I can say is: I wish I had half his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective skills! Plus I've got a sneaking suspicion I might know him in real life. Are you involved in recruitment Andrew?

Thanks CJ The posting at 10:16 last night clarifies the relationship somewhat with the use of "our" and "we". Clearly there is some form of formal arrangement in which they consent to respond as one on behalf of each online profile. Sorry, I'm not in the employment industry. Having worked in fraud investigation (including private-pension fraud), my ethics are far too robust to work in that particular unregulated profession.

Andrew:Oxford Can you be more explicit in identifying "the posting at 10.16 last night" please. I have no record of one at that time even after allowing for the difference in time zones.

Ok, perhaps the Date&Time are refreshed dynamically at the local address. If you're using a good browser, right click on the page and choose "view page source". The source text will then appear. There are 3500 lines of data and it does look a bit of a muddle, but you'll be able to scroll through and find the times which are stored locally adjacent to the command "genericdatetime". Hope this helps.

Thank you Andrew:Oxford. In truth I found it easier to slowly scroll back and by a process of deduction and elimination located the posting by Janeybird. It would probably have been easier for you to simply say it was the one in which you were taken to task by her for the disclosure of personal information. No matter. I had expected to find something of interest and relevance. I was wrong.

Ah well, at least you now know how to find a core time in a web page with dynamic times and dates.

You are of course aware that there was no disclosure of personal information. I have no access to anything that isn't published. It was an aggregation of data, freely posted by each of you at your own personal choice, across the internet.

Whilst yours was very straightforward to put together. Did you know that free to access aggregation sites constantly search out linkages across the internet - all calculated by IP addresses, names, pseudonyms, electoral records, club membership lists. In particular newspaper sites are a valuable source of information.

Your lobby group members are already listed on some of them.

Probably wise to contact them to opt out of the service if you aren't very keen!

And so what ?
Andrew:Oxford and Captain J.
you have not contributed anything to the original article have you, just nitpicking !
I hate spammers and scammers and as you seem to enjoy trying to disprove our position as individuals in which you failed, I would recommend that you concentrate on bringing down the hackers that try to infiltrate and spoil the freedom that the internet now provides. Try and be more positive and supportive of your fellow men and women and you may earn some respect for doing so.
Our campaign is for everyone to be aware of this discrimination as you are paying for a pension and so is you employer and both are being robbed should you be denied on retirement.

morgeo wrote:
And so what ?
Andrew:Oxford and Captain J.
you have not contributed anything to the original article have you, just nitpicking !
I hate spammers and scammers and as you seem to enjoy trying to disprove our position as individuals in which you failed, I would recommend that you concentrate on bringing down the hackers that try to infiltrate and spoil the freedom that the internet now provides. Try and be more positive and supportive of your fellow men and women and you may earn some respect for doing so.
Our campaign is for everyone to be aware of this discrimination as you are paying for a pension and so is you employer and both are being robbed should you be denied on retirement.

"And so what?" So after all the fuss, you're not really that bothered....

I refer you to earlier comments, you will find I provided guidance to SNJ who had difficulties with his Personal Protection Insurance with Nat West.

Why not be honest from the start and explain that you are an international group of like-minded lobbyists working together to promote your personal cause in the local newspaper of the UK PM?

Of course, in some parts of the UK and around the world a "partnership" is an individual. Check out the Partnership Act 1890 if you have the time, it's quite fascinating.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

morgeo wrote: And so what ? Andrew:Oxford and Captain J. you have not contributed anything to the original article have you, just nitpicking ! I hate spammers and scammers and as you seem to enjoy trying to disprove our position as individuals in which you failed, I would recommend that you concentrate on bringing down the hackers that try to infiltrate and spoil the freedom that the internet now provides. Try and be more positive and supportive of your fellow men and women and you may earn some respect for doing so. Our campaign is for everyone to be aware of this discrimination as you are paying for a pension and so is you employer and both are being robbed should you be denied on retirement.

"And so what?" So after all the fuss, you're not really that bothered.... I refer you to earlier comments, you will find I provided guidance to SNJ who had difficulties with his Personal Protection Insurance with Nat West. Why not be honest from the start and explain that you are an international group of like-minded lobbyists working together to promote your personal cause in the local newspaper of the UK PM? Of course, in some parts of the UK and around the world a "partnership" is an individual. Check out the Partnership Act 1890 if you have the time, it's quite fascinating.

Excuse me Andrew:Oxford but I have the distinct impression that all the fuss was created by CaptainJ and Andrew:Oxford who took it upon themselves to derail an article on scams by questioning - quite wrongly - the validity of some postings.

International Group of lobbyists? !!!

Oh for pity's sake go and comment on something you know about...like swimming pools

Andrew:Oxford, you said :
"And so what?" So after all the fuss, you're not really that bothered."
That's where you are wrong again. We are on here because we are bothered and care about our fellowmen especially when they are being treated unfairly and we will carry on doing everything we can to change it.
You mentioned David Cameron and he is one of the problems.
He says one thing and does another like Steve Webb.
He said that he would hold a referendum over the EU membership when looking for votes and what did he do when elected - nothing and the same applies to the freezing pension policy.
Yes , if our comments embarass the Prime Minister then he only has himself to blame for not being honest with his constituents.
Another reason is that I am interested in events in the Oxford area because I have family in his constituency as well and so I read the Oxford Mail and the Witney Gazette regularly.

morgeo wrote:
Andrew:Oxford, you said :
"And so what?" So after all the fuss, you're not really that bothered."
That's where you are wrong again. We are on here because we are bothered and care about our fellowmen especially when they are being treated unfairly and we will carry on doing everything we can to change it.
You mentioned David Cameron and he is one of the problems.
He says one thing and does another like Steve Webb.
He said that he would hold a referendum over the EU membership when looking for votes and what did he do when elected - nothing and the same applies to the freezing pension policy.
Yes , if our comments embarass the Prime Minister then he only has himself to blame for not being honest with his constituents.
Another reason is that I am interested in events in the Oxford area because I have family in his constituency as well and so I read the Oxford Mail and the Witney Gazette regularly.

I did mention in my earlier post that I noted the correspondence in the Witney Gazette.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

morgeo wrote: And so what ? Andrew:Oxford and Captain J. you have not contributed anything to the original article have you, just nitpicking ! I hate spammers and scammers and as you seem to enjoy trying to disprove our position as individuals in which you failed, I would recommend that you concentrate on bringing down the hackers that try to infiltrate and spoil the freedom that the internet now provides. Try and be more positive and supportive of your fellow men and women and you may earn some respect for doing so. Our campaign is for everyone to be aware of this discrimination as you are paying for a pension and so is you employer and both are being robbed should you be denied on retirement.

"And so what?" So after all the fuss, you're not really that bothered.... I refer you to earlier comments, you will find I provided guidance to SNJ who had difficulties with his Personal Protection Insurance with Nat West. Why not be honest from the start and explain that you are an international group of like-minded lobbyists working together to promote your personal cause in the local newspaper of the UK PM? Of course, in some parts of the UK and around the world a "partnership" is an individual. Check out the Partnership Act 1890 if you have the time, it's quite fascinating.

Excuse me Andrew:Oxford but I have the distinct impression that all the fuss was created by CaptainJ and Andrew:Oxford who took it upon themselves to derail an article on scams by questioning - quite wrongly - the validity of some postings.

International Group of lobbyists? !!!

Oh for pity's sake go and comment on something you know about...like swimming pools

So...

Are you now denying that your group are from across international locations?

If you're not lobbying for change in pension legislation, what are you doing?

Don't worry about distracting me from other stories. I can multi-task. This story should be open for a few more days yet, so plenty of time to comment and keep the partnership busy.

If you are as clever as you think you are then you would know that we are thousands of miles apart. So your comments are'nt so smart and believe me we are not only writing to this newspaper at this time. But it will keep you busy finding out as you have nothing better to do, so run along and collect your unemployment benefit, there's a good chap as we have work to do.

morgeo wrote:
If you are as clever as you think you are then you would know that we are thousands of miles apart. So your comments are'nt so smart and believe me we are not only writing to this newspaper at this time. But it will keep you busy finding out as you have nothing better to do, so run along and collect your unemployment benefit, there's a good chap as we have work to do.

Your partner "robthefox" scoffed with an "? !!!" when I referred to you as an international group of lobbyists.

Yet you are now saying you are indeed 1000s of miles apart.

Pleased to say I've never taken any benefits and I'm a full contributor to the UK tax.

Any reason why you don't take your Lobbying to the European Court?

;-)

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

morgeo wrote: If you are as clever as you think you are then you would know that we are thousands of miles apart. So your comments are'nt so smart and believe me we are not only writing to this newspaper at this time. But it will keep you busy finding out as you have nothing better to do, so run along and collect your unemployment benefit, there's a good chap as we have work to do.

Your partner "robthefox" scoffed with an "? !!!" when I referred to you as an international group of lobbyists. Yet you are now saying you are indeed 1000s of miles apart. Pleased to say I've never taken any benefits and I'm a full contributor to the UK tax. Any reason why you don't take your Lobbying to the European Court? ;-)

Sorry, Andrew:Oxford that you mistook the purpose of my "? !!!". It was often commented upon by more senior management in my working life that I did not suffer fools gladly and at times, perhaps, did not conceal it as well as I should. This it seems was one of those times, Andrew:Oxford.

I see you are now referrring to Morgeo as "my partner". Well that at least indicates that you now concede that your original assumptions about being just one individual using different username identies were way off the mark. Look forward to seeing your full apology in due course.

By your definition of "International Lobbyists' - which I do not accept - then one has to assume that in belittling as you apparently seek to do the views of four of five individuals you and your"partner", Captain J, are, if not International, simply National lobbyists.

Delighted to learn that you have never taken any benefits. You must be almost unique in not having had need to use the National Health Service - which is, of course, a benefit.

I suspect you are already aware the frozen pensions issue has been the subject of a case in the courts. (Carson & Others v. the UK Government) The UK courts decided that it was not actually a legal matter but a parliamentary concern. The ECHR Grand Chamber in a majority ruling advised that the current position did not breach the UK law and such discrimination was not illegal. It did not, however, make the payment of uprating to pensioners in frozen countries illegal and the door for government to remedy this moral injustice is still open. We seek to persuade them to pass through it.

On one other point Andrew:Oxford perhaps you would revisit my posting of 8.42 on the 3rd July and answer the question I posed then and which, despite being subsequently reminded, you have thus far failed to do.

Clearly if the European Court can justify it, so can I. only makes sense. The legislation is clear.

Lobbying Nationalists across International boundaries perhaps?

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Clearly if the European Court can justify it, so can I. only makes sense. The legislation is clear. Lobbying Nationalists across International boundaries perhaps?

Go on then - justify it.

Ok.

On review of the relevant legislation, I find that your claims are unjustified. This is in line with the judge and very expensive lawyers in the European Court...

Have you and your partners considered taking action against your pension advisors?

Most people take formal financial advice concerning their pension and retirement at significant lifestyle events, starting work, marriage, children, major job changes.

Clearly they did not advise you well when you were discussing your retirement. It was definitely something that the "trade" was familiar with when I was doing a pensions and investment training course many years ago - we always raised it with individuals who were planning on going foreign on retirement.

A quick question for Andrew:
Oxford (and Captain J who seems to have retired with battle scars): Did you know, when you were paying your National Insurance contributions, that your State pension would not be fully honoured if you moved to certain countries on retirement?
Also, did you discuss your retirement with the insurers (in this case the Government) as you suggest everyone should do? Honest answers, please!!

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Ok. On review of the relevant legislation, I find that your claims are unjustified. This is in line with the judge and very expensive lawyers in the European Court... Have you and your partners considered taking action against your pension advisors? Most people take formal financial advice concerning their pension and retirement at significant lifestyle events, starting work, marriage, children, major job changes. Clearly they did not advise you well when you were discussing your retirement. It was definitely something that the "trade" was familiar with when I was doing a pensions and investment training course many years ago - we always raised it with individuals who were planning on going foreign on retirement.

Having reviewed the relevant legislation - which I doubt as you refer to the European judge and it was of course a panel of judges - you will appreciate that the ruling does not constitute justification of the frozen pension policy. Only that it is not, in their view, illegal discrimination. It is the moral issue here, Andrew:Oxford, not the legal one and it has already been established (and tacitly confirmed by the ECHR ruling) that it would not be illegal to uprate pensions world wide.

I therefore, ask you yet again to justify, I repeat justify, the policy whereby pensioners in for example Canada are denied the increase yet those in the USA are not.

Did you not read what I said?

The UK Courts determined that this was not a legal issue but one for Parliament. Whether one took the advise of so-called pension advisors is irrelevant - they might, if they were aware of the situation, warn you but would not be in any position to actually change the ruling.

Did you not read read what I said?

Prior to my retirement I was, for fifteen years, in contact with the International Pensions Service concerning my plans to emigrate and my pension position. Although they advised about medical insurance when abroad no mention was ever made pension freezing - although they were aware of which country I was proposing to live in.

Ok.

If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing".

Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions.

And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago.

(It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to).

The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

Andrew:Oxford - Your last words are at last honest: "Just too late for you.” Why were they "too late"? Why were we left unaware of the discriminatory penalty of moving to certain countries until it was "too late" for us to do anything about it? I repeat, we were scammed by our own Government!

One big problem was that those that emigrated before retirment age, whether for a new job or to just follow family or government policy. Many are ex servicemen and women who returned to a country they had served in - Singapore and Malaya, Cyprus, Canada, Australia and the USA for example. Retirement was furthest from their minds but having paid all of their necessary premiums they expected the full pension and as has been said many were not advised when leaving.
It really matters not what the reason was for a current pensioner to emigrate. They have all paid what was asked and should all receive the same treatment and there is no excuse - even a financial one, at this time, and continue what has proved to be such a bad policy full of holes.
The cost of the administration in replying to queries and paying for the uprating when a pensioner is visiting the UK must be taken into consideration and when the cost is just 1% of the pension budget as admitted by the government then surely the time has come to throw this policy in the dustbin and abide by all of the agreements that have been signed around the world in respect of doing away with discrimination and poverty that it promotes.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
For the "foreigners" whining about their UK state pensions... Why not repatriate to the UK and perhaps enjoy the full value? Or when you balance your life in your new country with the pension, is life still better in foreign parts?

It is my NI contributions now that are paying for your earned benefits. Much like your NI contributions funded your ancestors - I'd rather that the pensioners who remain in the UK and spend their income in the UK had the maximum benefit.

I would suggest that you do a little research before making such assinine comments. The NI contributions that my, and previous generation`s made, have resulted in a huge surplus currently in the fund. We are not whining about the frozen pension issue, we are demanding that the UK government stop discriminating against those who wish to spend their retirement wherever they please.
As for your suggestion that we return to the UK. I wouldn`t dignify this fatuous remark with a reply.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Ok. If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing". Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions. And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago. (It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to). The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

You say "Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions" Actually, having experience of both sides of a government service counter I would expect that being asked what the implications were for one's pension of living abroad would have been adequate. The International Pensions Service was, in my case, asked that very question. The response was that it was payable world wide, to a bank account in the UK or knowing, as they did, the country in which I proposed to live, by cheque to an account at a bank in that country or by cheque to my home address. Direct transfer was not (then) available. Among other correspondence with them I sought, over the course of fifteen years at least three pension estimate updates. No correspondence from them mentioned freezing and the existence of Pensions Advisors does not exonerate the now DWP from advising potential pensioners.

If it is reasonably well known why did the Pensions Service omit to mention it, why is the ICBP Parliamentary Adviser pressing for better DWP publicity on the issue and why, as recent correspondence with them shows, are a considerable number of UK MP's ignorant of the frozen pensions issue?

But the question of being forewarned or not is simply an off-shoot of the main issue, is it not? And the main issue - the one that you Andrew:Oxford seem to continually avoid - is what justification is there for freezing the pension of one individual because he lives in one particular country but not freezing it for his identical counterpart when he lives in another?

In a nutshell and in my view, Andrew:Oxford, the justification is the same as it would be for freezing pensions in Reading but not Oxford; there isn't any.

But, as you think otherwise, no doubt you will, at long last, enlighten the half a million who are currrently victimised

Looking at all the comments here makes it very clear that right is on our side.....Andrew:Oxfo
rd and Captain J are not man enough to apologise for being wrong about the one person commenting under various names accusation. And it is patently obvious that you guys will not or cannot see the injustice of the frozen pension issue but when we achieve justice it will mean you will have the right to retire anywhere you choose without government discrimination in denying your rightful pension.
What all this boils down to is you cannot defend the indefensible.
Enough said.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Ok. If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing". Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions. And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago. (It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to). The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

You say "Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions" Actually, having experience of both sides of a government service counter I would expect that being asked what the implications were for one's pension of living abroad would have been adequate. The International Pensions Service was, in my case, asked that very question. The response was that it was payable world wide, to a bank account in the UK or knowing, as they did, the country in which I proposed to live, by cheque to an account at a bank in that country or by cheque to my home address. Direct transfer was not (then) available. Among other correspondence with them I sought, over the course of fifteen years at least three pension estimate updates. No correspondence from them mentioned freezing and the existence of Pensions Advisors does not exonerate the now DWP from advising potential pensioners.

If it is reasonably well known why did the Pensions Service omit to mention it, why is the ICBP Parliamentary Adviser pressing for better DWP publicity on the issue and why, as recent correspondence with them shows, are a considerable number of UK MP's ignorant of the frozen pensions issue?

But the question of being forewarned or not is simply an off-shoot of the main issue, is it not? And the main issue - the one that you Andrew:Oxford seem to continually avoid - is what justification is there for freezing the pension of one individual because he lives in one particular country but not freezing it for his identical counterpart when he lives in another?

In a nutshell and in my view, Andrew:Oxford, the justification is the same as it would be for freezing pensions in Reading but not Oxford; there isn't any.

But, as you think otherwise, no doubt you will, at long last, enlighten the half a million who are currrently victimised

So when did you retire? (Clearly I could look it up.) The Government started using TAPS to pay overseas pensions electronically back in 1987.

It's just a shame you chose not to get proper professional advice.

You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.

janeybird wrote:
Looking at all the comments here makes it very clear that right is on our side.....Andrew:Oxfo

rd and Captain J are not man enough to apologise for being wrong about the one person commenting under various names accusation. And it is patently obvious that you guys will not or cannot see the injustice of the frozen pension issue but when we achieve justice it will mean you will have the right to retire anywhere you choose without government discrimination in denying your rightful pension.
What all this boils down to is you cannot defend the indefensible.
Enough said.

I would remind you that in some part of the UK and the rest of the world a group acting as a partnership can be treated as an Individual.

Andrew:Oxford said : "You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.”
What a stupid comment ! I remarried after my first wife died and she lived in Canada and so you are saying that we should have chosen a country where the pension was not frozen when I retired. And I suppose that would have been your recommendation to me and my wife had we consulted you. We have 3 children and 7 grandchildren in Canada, so why would we want to retire anywhere else ?
I guess you would say that I should have married an American ! Duh !
As for the last comment - you mean like you and your mate Captain J ?

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote: Ok. If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing". Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions. And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago. (It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to). The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

You say "Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions" Actually, having experience of both sides of a government service counter I would expect that being asked what the implications were for one's pension of living abroad would have been adequate. The International Pensions Service was, in my case, asked that very question. The response was that it was payable world wide, to a bank account in the UK or knowing, as they did, the country in which I proposed to live, by cheque to an account at a bank in that country or by cheque to my home address. Direct transfer was not (then) available. Among other correspondence with them I sought, over the course of fifteen years at least three pension estimate updates. No correspondence from them mentioned freezing and the existence of Pensions Advisors does not exonerate the now DWP from advising potential pensioners. If it is reasonably well known why did the Pensions Service omit to mention it, why is the ICBP Parliamentary Adviser pressing for better DWP publicity on the issue and why, as recent correspondence with them shows, are a considerable number of UK MP's ignorant of the frozen pensions issue? But the question of being forewarned or not is simply an off-shoot of the main issue, is it not? And the main issue - the one that you Andrew:Oxford seem to continually avoid - is what justification is there for freezing the pension of one individual because he lives in one particular country but not freezing it for his identical counterpart when he lives in another? In a nutshell and in my view, Andrew:Oxford, the justification is the same as it would be for freezing pensions in Reading but not Oxford; there isn't any. But, as you think otherwise, no doubt you will, at long last, enlighten the half a million who are currrently victimised

So when did you retire? (Clearly I could look it up.) The Government started using TAPS to pay overseas pensions electronically back in 1987. It's just a shame you chose not to get proper professional advice. You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.

You really don't get it do you Andrew:Oxford?

Firstly, however, you say that the Government started using TAPS back in 1978. Possibly that is when they started but when I dealt with The International Pensions Service it was not universal and certainly three years ago was not available in the country in which I now reside. But even if it was or is now available is totally and utterly irrelevant because it is only a side-tracking issue.

While you clearly wish to extol the apparent virtues of professional pension advice whether I had visited one adviser or a thousand is totally and utterly irrelevant. But while the lack of information coming from the DWP (in both its current and previous names) is lamentable, whoever might have provided it is only a side isssue.

WHAT YOU SEEK TO DO IS AVOID THE MAIN ISSUE

The main issue all along has been and remains the absence of any justification for the frozen pension policy itself. I have, on at least two other postings, asked you to give details of such justification and you have failed to do so.

SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO JUSTIFY THE FROZEN STATE RETIREMENT PENSION POLICY?

All you've proven is that you're some sort of weird misguided organisation dedicated to spamming unrelated local posts with your political agenda. Give it up, David Cameron doesn't read these comments.

If you're really serious about your cause, I recommend you could try one of these alternate strategies. You're more likely to find people who care:

1) Make a blog purely dedicated to pension freezing.
2) Make a few angry videos on Youtube. Sweary pensioners are de rigeur at the moment.
3) Go along to a filming of question time.
4) Write a letter to you MP.
5) Write a letter to someone else's MP.
6) Come out in the open and make your organisation public instead of teaming up to spam messageboard in the pretense that you're all unrelated people with a similar issue.

Captain J wrote:
All you've proven is that you're some sort of weird misguided organisation dedicated to spamming unrelated local posts with your political agenda. Give it up, David Cameron doesn't read these comments. If you're really serious about your cause, I recommend you could try one of these alternate strategies. You're more likely to find people who care: 1) Make a blog purely dedicated to pension freezing. 2) Make a few angry videos on Youtube. Sweary pensioners are de rigeur at the moment. 3) Go along to a filming of question time. 4) Write a letter to you MP. 5) Write a letter to someone else's MP. 6) Come out in the open and make your organisation public instead of teaming up to spam messageboard in the pretense that you're all unrelated people with a similar issue.

Why CaptainJ, welcome back we missed but probably not as much as Andrew:Oxford who has and still is, bless him, posting irrelevant offerings which are being systematically shredded.

We are not weird or misguided nor are we dedicated to spamming unrelated local posts. We are UK citizens dedicated to overthrowing a scam perpetrated by successive governments; a scam very similar to that suffered by Mr. and Mrs. Strange.

I was quite excited when I saw you had listed alternate straegies but oh dear, how sad.
Let me list them again.
1.Blog - already in existence.
2. Problem - we are not sweary pensioners and despite our dedication to the cause and we would not want it to get a bad name.
3.Well, it is an idea. But the cost implications preclude unless of course you like to fund the Air Fare for one of us, arrange tickets for the programme and of course ensure our question is broadcast?
4.Write to our MP - Done it is ongoing
5. Write to someone else's MP - done - it is on going
6. The International Consortium of British Pensioners has produced an excellent website; as has the CAPC, as has BAPA, as has BPiA.and there are numerous other groups who work for the same cause.
There are also those like Frozen in Calgary, Morgeo, Janeybi...but you know the names..who work individually but keep each other informed of possible useful openings relayed by Google Search.

Now, if you do not like our offerings that is too bad. Of course you could have avoided them all you have to do is justify the policy.

I will ask you the same question as I have asked Andrew:Oxfordand which he is avoiding
- Will you, please justify the scam of the frozen pension policy?

and I will also ask
-Why have you bothered to come onto this messageboard yet, apart from a very brief apology for your derailing the discussion on their scam, apparently, made no comments on the plight of Mr. and Mrs Strange?

Indeed I would go so far as to say your sole objective has sought, albeit very unsuccessfully, to belittle the frozen pensioner.

No, I will not justify the frozen pension policy. It is a topic I have absolutely no interest in, and has absolutely zero relevance to my decision to post in this thread.

I originally posted because you were attempting to flood it with your political agenda, and to make it look like multiple unrelated posters had the same issue. I'm not impressed with this kind of misinformation on the internet and I wanted to make sure any other readers realised what you were up to.

Which I'm sure they do now.

morgeo wrote:
Andrew:Oxford said : "You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.”
What a stupid comment ! I remarried after my first wife died and she lived in Canada and so you are saying that we should have chosen a country where the pension was not frozen when I retired. And I suppose that would have been your recommendation to me and my wife had we consulted you. We have 3 children and 7 grandchildren in Canada, so why would we want to retire anywhere else ?
I guess you would say that I should have married an American ! Duh !
As for the last comment - you mean like you and your mate Captain J ?

Clearly love is sometimes more important than money.

As to partnership:- Janey made things absolutely clear earlier that there is a partnership within your group when she said

"I have reported you for releasing our names without our permission....we await your and Captain J's apology.

We of course allow"

Clearly here she is defining that she undertook a single action "I" for and on behalf of your team "Our, We" and "We" for second time in order that there could be no doubt.

At no point have I published content that could be interpreted that a partership exists with myself and any other poster.

Well, this has all been "such fun", I've been polite throughout the debate despite the name calling - even with the expressions of hatred by yourself at 17.15 on Thursday.

Will try and catch you and your partners a bit later, but it's a busy day in Oxford - the Olympic Torch is visiting today.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote: Ok. If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing". Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions. And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago. (It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to). The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

You say "Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions" Actually, having experience of both sides of a government service counter I would expect that being asked what the implications were for one's pension of living abroad would have been adequate. The International Pensions Service was, in my case, asked that very question. The response was that it was payable world wide, to a bank account in the UK or knowing, as they did, the country in which I proposed to live, by cheque to an account at a bank in that country or by cheque to my home address. Direct transfer was not (then) available. Among other correspondence with them I sought, over the course of fifteen years at least three pension estimate updates. No correspondence from them mentioned freezing and the existence of Pensions Advisors does not exonerate the now DWP from advising potential pensioners. If it is reasonably well known why did the Pensions Service omit to mention it, why is the ICBP Parliamentary Adviser pressing for better DWP publicity on the issue and why, as recent correspondence with them shows, are a considerable number of UK MP's ignorant of the frozen pensions issue? But the question of being forewarned or not is simply an off-shoot of the main issue, is it not? And the main issue - the one that you Andrew:Oxford seem to continually avoid - is what justification is there for freezing the pension of one individual because he lives in one particular country but not freezing it for his identical counterpart when he lives in another? In a nutshell and in my view, Andrew:Oxford, the justification is the same as it would be for freezing pensions in Reading but not Oxford; there isn't any. But, as you think otherwise, no doubt you will, at long last, enlighten the half a million who are currrently victimised

So when did you retire? (Clearly I could look it up.) The Government started using TAPS to pay overseas pensions electronically back in 1987. It's just a shame you chose not to get proper professional advice. You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.

You really don't get it do you Andrew:Oxford?

Firstly, however, you say that the Government started using TAPS back in 1978. Possibly that is when they started but when I dealt with The International Pensions Service it was not universal and certainly three years ago was not available in the country in which I now reside. But even if it was or is now available is totally and utterly irrelevant because it is only a side-tracking issue.

While you clearly wish to extol the apparent virtues of professional pension advice whether I had visited one adviser or a thousand is totally and utterly irrelevant. But while the lack of information coming from the DWP (in both its current and previous names) is lamentable, whoever might have provided it is only a side isssue.

WHAT YOU SEEK TO DO IS AVOID THE MAIN ISSUE

The main issue all along has been and remains the absence of any justification for the frozen pension policy itself. I have, on at least two other postings, asked you to give details of such justification and you have failed to do so.

SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO JUSTIFY THE FROZEN STATE RETIREMENT PENSION POLICY?

1987.

I think you'll find I have justified it. The legistlation is quite clear, the European Courts agree that it is all in order.

I'm quite flattered really that your group are so focussed on maintaining my interest with your postings.

It's certainly been making some taxi and train journeys a little less dull.

Andrew:Oxford said :" I think you'll find I have justified it. The legistlation is quite clear, the European Courts agree that it is all in order.”
Pity you said that Andrew. It shows that you really have'nt learnt a thing about this have you ?
Re-read 2,28 Sat comment by RobtheFox. Your comment is much the same as those coming back from the uninformed MP's.

Captain J wrote:
No, I will not justify the frozen pension policy. It is a topic I have absolutely no interest in, and has absolutely zero relevance to my decision to post in this thread. I originally posted because you were attempting to flood it with your political agenda, and to make it look like multiple unrelated posters had the same issue. I'm not impressed with this kind of misinformation on the internet and I wanted to make sure any other readers realised what you were up to. Which I'm sure they do now.

Right then - we have now established that you were not interested in the scam on Mr. and Mrs Strange in the first place and that you sought only to inflict your personal but misguded observations of our postings on the public.

By your own hand, therefore, you have at best only placed yourelf on the same level as those you criticise.

However, the postings provided by Morgeo, Frozen in Calgary, Janeybird, Bagochips and myself are not misinformation. They are facts based on the frozen pension scam and which link with that suffered by Mr. And Mrs Strange.

I am sure the educated readers of the Oxford Mail are now more conversant with scams at both national and local level from the interest shown by those individuals you name.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
I'm quite flattered really that your group are so focussed on maintaining my interest with your postings. It's certainly been making some taxi and train journeys a little less dull.

Andrew:Oxford - May I suggest that you please keep your comments on the subject matter - scams - otherwise CaptainJ may have cause to reprimand you.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote: Ok. If you'd gone to an independent financial adviser, who would probably have charged you for advice, they would have asked you leading questions to give you the best advice - and they would have been able to tell you about the "freezing". Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions. And yes, I knew about the freezing as it was covered in my personal financial adviser training many, many years ago. (It was even raised by my own adviser at my last pensions review at Easter where he asked me where I planned to retire to). The information is out there, and it's reasonably well known. Just too late for you.

You say "Going to a government service leaves it in your hands to ask direct and appropriate leading questions" Actually, having experience of both sides of a government service counter I would expect that being asked what the implications were for one's pension of living abroad would have been adequate. The International Pensions Service was, in my case, asked that very question. The response was that it was payable world wide, to a bank account in the UK or knowing, as they did, the country in which I proposed to live, by cheque to an account at a bank in that country or by cheque to my home address. Direct transfer was not (then) available. Among other correspondence with them I sought, over the course of fifteen years at least three pension estimate updates. No correspondence from them mentioned freezing and the existence of Pensions Advisors does not exonerate the now DWP from advising potential pensioners. If it is reasonably well known why did the Pensions Service omit to mention it, why is the ICBP Parliamentary Adviser pressing for better DWP publicity on the issue and why, as recent correspondence with them shows, are a considerable number of UK MP's ignorant of the frozen pensions issue? But the question of being forewarned or not is simply an off-shoot of the main issue, is it not? And the main issue - the one that you Andrew:Oxford seem to continually avoid - is what justification is there for freezing the pension of one individual because he lives in one particular country but not freezing it for his identical counterpart when he lives in another? In a nutshell and in my view, Andrew:Oxford, the justification is the same as it would be for freezing pensions in Reading but not Oxford; there isn't any. But, as you think otherwise, no doubt you will, at long last, enlighten the half a million who are currrently victimised

So when did you retire? (Clearly I could look it up.) The Government started using TAPS to pay overseas pensions electronically back in 1987. It's just a shame you chose not to get proper professional advice. You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.

You really don't get it do you Andrew:Oxford? Firstly, however, you say that the Government started using TAPS back in 1978. Possibly that is when they started but when I dealt with The International Pensions Service it was not universal and certainly three years ago was not available in the country in which I now reside. But even if it was or is now available is totally and utterly irrelevant because it is only a side-tracking issue. While you clearly wish to extol the apparent virtues of professional pension advice whether I had visited one adviser or a thousand is totally and utterly irrelevant. But while the lack of information coming from the DWP (in both its current and previous names) is lamentable, whoever might have provided it is only a side isssue. WHAT YOU SEEK TO DO IS AVOID THE MAIN ISSUE The main issue all along has been and remains the absence of any justification for the frozen pension policy itself. I have, on at least two other postings, asked you to give details of such justification and you have failed to do so. SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO JUSTIFY THE FROZEN STATE RETIREMENT PENSION POLICY?

1987. I think you'll find I have justified it. The legistlation is quite clear, the European Courts agree that it is all in order.

Sorry about typing 1978 instead onf 1987 but, as you will appreciate, the dicrepancy is of no consequence in this context.

Morgeo has drawn your attention to the fact that a court ruling is not necessarily, and certainly not in this case, a justification for government policy. We therefore look forward to your providing it.

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

morgeo wrote: Andrew:Oxford said : "You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.” What a stupid comment ! I remarried after my first wife died and she lived in Canada and so you are saying that we should have chosen a country where the pension was not frozen when I retired. And I suppose that would have been your recommendation to me and my wife had we consulted you. We have 3 children and 7 grandchildren in Canada, so why would we want to retire anywhere else ? I guess you would say that I should have married an American ! Duh ! As for the last comment - you mean like you and your mate Captain J ?

Clearly love is sometimes more important than money. As to partnership:- Janey made things absolutely clear earlier that there is a partnership within your group when she said "I have reported you for releasing our names without our permission....we await your and Captain J's apology. We of course allow" Clearly here she is defining that she undertook a single action "I" for and on behalf of your team "Our, We" and "We" for second time in order that there could be no doubt. At no point have I published content that could be interpreted that a partership exists with myself and any other poster. Well, this has all been "such fun", I've been polite throughout the debate despite the name calling - even with the expressions of hatred by yourself at 17.15 on Thursday. Will try and catch you and your partners a bit later, but it's a busy day in Oxford - the Olympic Torch is visiting today.

Oh I think you have established your "partnership" when you disclosed the identities and wer congrtaulated by Captainj with a "Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford". . .parnership established.

Then again of course when I expressed my amusement at you thinking we were International Lobbyists and did that not put you, by your own definition, in the same category when you replied "Lobbying Nationalists across International boundaries, perhaps"? I think so.

Having read back I can find nothing in any of the comments made by the five individuals that are "expressions of hatred" and I think that it would, to avoid confusion, be advisable for you to actually quote what you feel is such a comment.

I doubt if the business that is Oxford will be too disrupted and certainly as the torch will be leaving the city at 07.05 and in Abingdon by 07.40 BST.

i hope that the weather stays fine for what is unquestionably an event to be enjoyed and remembered.

RobtheFox wrote:

Andrew:Oxford wrote:

morgeo wrote: Andrew:Oxford said : "You could have been able to choose your country of retirement more successfully and would have reaped the reward of good financial advice year after year.” What a stupid comment ! I remarried after my first wife died and she lived in Canada and so you are saying that we should have chosen a country where the pension was not frozen when I retired. And I suppose that would have been your recommendation to me and my wife had we consulted you. We have 3 children and 7 grandchildren in Canada, so why would we want to retire anywhere else ? I guess you would say that I should have married an American ! Duh ! As for the last comment - you mean like you and your mate Captain J ?

Clearly love is sometimes more important than money. As to partnership:- Janey made things absolutely clear earlier that there is a partnership within your group when she said "I have reported you for releasing our names without our permission....we await your and Captain J's apology. We of course allow" Clearly here she is defining that she undertook a single action "I" for and on behalf of your team "Our, We" and "We" for second time in order that there could be no doubt. At no point have I published content that could be interpreted that a partership exists with myself and any other poster. Well, this has all been "such fun", I've been polite throughout the debate despite the name calling - even with the expressions of hatred by yourself at 17.15 on Thursday. Will try and catch you and your partners a bit later, but it's a busy day in Oxford - the Olympic Torch is visiting today.

Oh I think you have established your "partnership" when you disclosed the identities and wer congrtaulated by Captainj with a "Wow, good work Andrew:Oxford". . .parnership established.

Then again of course when I expressed my amusement at you thinking we were International Lobbyists and did that not put you, by your own definition, in the same category when you replied "Lobbying Nationalists across International boundaries, perhaps"? I think so.

Having read back I can find nothing in any of the comments made by the five individuals that are "expressions of hatred" and I think that it would, to avoid confusion, be advisable for you to actually quote what you feel is such a comment.

I doubt if the business that is Oxford will be too disrupted and certainly as the torch will be leaving the city at 07.05 and in Abingdon by 07.40 BST.

i hope that the weather stays fine for what is unquestionably an event to be enjoyed and remembered.

Morgeo. 5.15pm, Thursday 5th July.

If "I hate" isn't an expression of hatred. What is it?

I was in Glasgow at the time it was used...

Perhaps you would have the decency to explain yourself, Andrew:Oxford.
Yes I said I hate scammers amd spammers, so unless you are one and are taking offence, I don't see the point of your comment.
Is this a guessing game ?
And you were in Glasgow, and I am in a quandry wondering what on earth you are talking about.

Morgeo - I think that the reference to Glasgow made by Andrew:Oxford is an obscure reference to an earlier comment I made about differences in time zones affecting when a posting is actually shown. I could be wrong, of course. but can think of no other explanation for that statement.

I note that there is still no justification from Andrew:Oxford for the pension freezing policy; I presume he realises he is not alone in this failing and that Pensions Minister, Steve Webb, is also in the position where he, too, cannot justify this discrimination?

No one in this thread except the "pensioner strike force" is interested in the pension freezing "scam". Stop droning on about it and go and work on a more effective strategy.

Captain J wrote:
No one in this thread except the "pensioner strike force" is interested in the pension freezing "scam". Stop droning on about it and go and work on a more effective strategy.

It is up to you Captain J if you wish to follow this thread or even comment upon it. If your not interested why log onto it; why comment?

It is not up to you to direct what those that do contribute are entitled to include.

I presume your comment is also dircted to Andrew:Oxford - he is quite a regular poster but has as yet to justify the frozen pension policy....had he done so this thread might have closed down much sooner.

Of course, you have no evidence which proves that this thread is not being widely followed but not commented upon by others and giving excellent publicity to the dangers of scams and that which was suffered by MR & Mrs Grant.

If as a result of this thread just one person avoids being caught in a scam, be it government orchestrated or otherwise, it will have proved its worth.

RobtheFox wrote:

Captain J wrote: No one in this thread except the "pensioner strike force" is interested in the pension freezing "scam". Stop droning on about it and go and work on a more effective strategy.

It is up to you Captain J if you wish to follow this thread or even comment upon it. If your not interested why log onto it; why comment? It is not up to you to direct what those that do contribute are entitled to include. I presume your comment is also dircted to Andrew:Oxford - he is quite a regular poster but has as yet to justify the frozen pension policy....had he done so this thread might have closed down much sooner. Of course, you have no evidence which proves that this thread is not being widely followed but not commented upon by others and giving excellent publicity to the dangers of scams and that which was suffered by MR & Mrs Grant. If as a result of this thread just one person avoids being caught in a scam, be it government orchestrated or otherwise, it will have proved its worth.

Apologies Mr and Mrs Strange for calling you Mr. and Mrs. Grant.

It would seem that, like the DWP, captain J and Andrew:Oxford do not have the answer for you RobtheFox.
Now I wonder why ? Could it be because it is a fraud like that suffered by George and Ann Strange ?

morgeo wrote:
It would seem that, like the DWP, captain J and Andrew:Oxford do not have the answer for you RobtheFox.
Now I wonder why ? Could it be because it is a fraud like that suffered by George and Ann Strange ?

No, it's because we don't care

Much like the politicians then !

morgeo wrote:
Much like the politicians then !

No, it's because we come to local news websites to read about local news, not to listen to unrelated political rants from a group of disgruntled ex-pats with an axe to grind.

Captain J wrote:

morgeo wrote: Much like the politicians then !

No, it's because we come to local news websites to read about local news, not to listen to unrelated political rants from a group of disgruntled ex-pats with an axe to grind.

And yet knowing that over 100 comments have been posted on a subject that you think is of no interest to others and in which you have stated you have no interest you still come back and comment.

Odd - but I see you say "we don't care" and "...because we come..' so are you speaking for Andrew:Oxford as well.

RobtheFox wrote:

Captain J wrote:

morgeo wrote: Much like the politicians then !

No, it's because we come to local news websites to read about local news, not to listen to unrelated political rants from a group of disgruntled ex-pats with an axe to grind.

And yet knowing that over 100 comments have been posted on a subject that you think is of no interest to others and in which you have stated you have no interest you still come back and comment.

Odd - but I see you say "we don't care" and "...because we come..' so are you speaking for Andrew:Oxford as well.

No, I'm speaking for everyone who visits local news sites, except you and your cronies of course.

And when did you achieve this great mandate to speak on behalf of everyone...and as your cronie Andrew:Oxford clearly visits this and other sites then, by definition, you must speak for him...

I speak on behalf of common sense. People don't come to local news websites to read the irrelevant political ravings of pensioners "thousands of miles way". Simple. Your inability to grasp that speaks volumes about the ineffective spamming tactics your group are attempting.

Anyway, I've unticked the "email me when a comment is added" box this time so I won't be returning to this thread again. Neither will anyone else. I'd suggest that arguing with yourself in a mirror might bring similar results to your cause as this thread has.

...actually, if you do that you might finally find yourself having a conversation with somebody who agrees with you!

Is this the right room for an argument?

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Is this the right room for an argument?

Sorry, Captain J has gone home.

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Is this the right room for an argument?

It would seem to have been manipulated that way but I would like to say thankyou for your positive and informative comments.