Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

Death toll of 'Hell's Drive'

First published in Wantage/Grove by

Today we reveal just how dangerous Oxfordshire’s “hell’s drive” is.

There have been 21 fatal collisions involving 22 motorcyclists, drivers and pedestrians who have lost their lives on the A420 since 2002.

Most recently, vet Rachael Jackson, 25, from Lyne Road, Kidlington, died near Buckland after the van she was driving was involved in a collision with a lorry on April 4.

Less than a week later, the same stretch of road was closed for several hours after a blue Toyota Yaris and a white Mitsubishi Canter collided, injuring two people on April 10.

In total there have been 363 fatal, serious or minor crashes on the A420 in the past 10 years.

Oxfordshire-based road safety expert Dan Campsall pointed to the fact that many of the crashes were clustered around junctions, which he said was to be expected on busy commuter routes.

He added: “traffic emerging from side roads, increased danger from overtaking or travelling at very different speeds all adds to the challenge that drivers face on roads like the A420.”

Although there is no suggestion that any of the recent crashes were down to speed, people living along the route feel slowing drivers down would help improve safety.

Lynne Cane, landlady at the Hinds Head pub, in Kingston Bagpuize, said: “They call it hell’s drive.

“There isn’t a speed camera along our stretch. It might help to put one there, or maybe more roundabouts.”

And Mandy Scott, who works at Buckland Primary School and uses the road regularly because she lives just outside Faringdon, agreed the road was dangerous.

She said: “We’ve got two children, aged 11 and 12, who need to cross the road in the mornings and evenings. We have to send an adult with them, because it’s just not safe enough, which is difficult with work.

“There are always stones on the road. When a lorry drives past they can flick up.

“Sometimes cars will stop to let you cross, but it’s two lanes, so you don’t know if the next car will stop. It’s too dangerous for a child to see, but it’s not the car’s job to stop.

“A crossing there would be great. Cameras would help, because it would only slow people down.

“You can’t stop the traffic, but lots of problems are caused by overtaking, so maybe putting down solid white lines in would help.”

At Buckland Primary School road safety is also a concern, with 60 per cent of pupils travelling from outside the village, most using the A420.

Headteacher Louise Warren said deaths on the road had an impact on pupils at the school.

She said: “Emotionally, it’s very difficult for some of the children in the village. Some parents try to keep their children away from that end of the village.

“Certainly a crossing would help slow the traffic down – the cars move very fast.

“Fortunately, in my time, there have been no incidents involving the children.”

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (Rospa), said: “Driving in rural areas, even on high-quality A-roads, is more dangerous than driving in urban areas: 40 per cent of road deaths occur on rural A-roads.

“In 2010, 657 people lost their lives on A-roads in rural areas, compared with 307 people on A-roads in urban areas.

“The higher speeds on these roads give people less time to react and result in more severe impacts, that all too often prove to be fatal.”

Casualty figures: Accidents on the A420 in Oxfordshire in the past 10 years:

Fatal 21, with 22 people dead.

Serious 58.

Slight 285.

Total: 363

Comments (37)

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9:42am Mon 23 Apr 12

snert says...

Casulatly figures: Accidents on the A420 in Oxfordshire in the past 10 years: Fatal 21, with 22 people dead.

Not sure what "casulatly" is but if 21 of the accidents are fatal and there are 22 dead, surely that mans there are 22 fatalities?
Casulatly figures: Accidents on the A420 in Oxfordshire in the past 10 years: Fatal 21, with 22 people dead. Not sure what "casulatly" is but if 21 of the accidents are fatal and there are 22 dead, surely that mans there are 22 fatalities? snert
  • Score: 0

9:49am Mon 23 Apr 12

Dan - Eynsham says...

It is horrible to cross from Buckland to the road to Stanford. I am surprised there aren't more accidents. A vile road, that I avoid whenever I can.
It is horrible to cross from Buckland to the road to Stanford. I am surprised there aren't more accidents. A vile road, that I avoid whenever I can. Dan - Eynsham
  • Score: 0

10:10am Mon 23 Apr 12

Dilligaf2010 says...

The only problem I've had on the A420 was when driving from Swindon to Oxford, a pigeon hit my bonnet with such force, it dented it.
The only problem I've had on the A420 was when driving from Swindon to Oxford, a pigeon hit my bonnet with such force, it dented it. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 0

10:13am Mon 23 Apr 12

Lord Palmerstone says...

It means that 1 crash meant 2 deceased;all the others 1.
There are speed limits on most of it now. A camera would reduce speeds for 100 yards, but that's a tiny fraction of its length. People who could not get a job running static machinery in a factory have drivers' licences. We all know people too old,emotionally unstable,tunnel visioned or just plain stupid to drive. We do well in our terribly crowded island to have such low fatalities overall. Perhaps we should sometimes congratulate ourselves.
It means that 1 crash meant 2 deceased;all the others 1. There are speed limits on most of it now. A camera would reduce speeds for 100 yards, but that's a tiny fraction of its length. People who could not get a job running static machinery in a factory have drivers' licences. We all know people too old,emotionally unstable,tunnel visioned or just plain stupid to drive. We do well in our terribly crowded island to have such low fatalities overall. Perhaps we should sometimes congratulate ourselves. Lord Palmerstone
  • Score: 0

11:07am Mon 23 Apr 12

Abingdon Voter says...

I'm always aware of how many slow HGV's use that road. Drivers in cars get frustrated and attempt some suicidal over-taking...I've seen some miraculous near misses in over 20 yrs of driving on that stretch. Options? Ban HGV's and put in Av speed cameras. Ban all over-taking. Too draconian? Maybe.
I'm always aware of how many slow HGV's use that road. Drivers in cars get frustrated and attempt some suicidal over-taking...I've seen some miraculous near misses in over 20 yrs of driving on that stretch. Options? Ban HGV's and put in Av speed cameras. Ban all over-taking. Too draconian? Maybe. Abingdon Voter
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Mon 23 Apr 12

gymrat34 says...

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
It means that 1 crash meant 2 deceased;all the others 1.
There are speed limits on most of it now. A camera would reduce speeds for 100 yards, but that's a tiny fraction of its length. People who could not get a job running static machinery in a factory have drivers' licences. We all know people too old,emotionally unstable,tunnel visioned or just plain stupid to drive. We do well in our terribly crowded island to have such low fatalities overall. Perhaps we should sometimes congratulate ourselves.
Totally agree with that last bit.
[quote][p][bold]Lord Palmerstone[/bold] wrote: It means that 1 crash meant 2 deceased;all the others 1. There are speed limits on most of it now. A camera would reduce speeds for 100 yards, but that's a tiny fraction of its length. People who could not get a job running static machinery in a factory have drivers' licences. We all know people too old,emotionally unstable,tunnel visioned or just plain stupid to drive. We do well in our terribly crowded island to have such low fatalities overall. Perhaps we should sometimes congratulate ourselves.[/p][/quote]Totally agree with that last bit. gymrat34
  • Score: 0

1:15pm Mon 23 Apr 12

the ock says...

Absolutely disgraceful record this and OCC really should act. We lived in Faringdon for 9 years and, with having to travel to work in Oxford, the A420 was a big part of the reason we moved to Abingdon 8 years ago, it is/was a terrible terrible road. Even back in 1995 there was a need for at least 3 or more roundabouts along that stretch from KB to Faringdon and probably some traffic lights too.
Absolutely disgraceful record this and OCC really should act. We lived in Faringdon for 9 years and, with having to travel to work in Oxford, the A420 was a big part of the reason we moved to Abingdon 8 years ago, it is/was a terrible terrible road. Even back in 1995 there was a need for at least 3 or more roundabouts along that stretch from KB to Faringdon and probably some traffic lights too. the ock
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Mon 23 Apr 12

Madi50n says...

I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them.

The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse.
I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them. The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse. Madi50n
  • Score: 0

3:02pm Mon 23 Apr 12

supersam says...

My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life. supersam
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Mon 23 Apr 12

TPS Oxford says...

supersam wrote:
My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.
[quote][p][bold]supersam[/bold] wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.[/p][/quote]In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure. TPS Oxford
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Mon 23 Apr 12

Dervish_Mumphry says...

This article leads with:

'Today we reveal just how dangerous Oxfordshire’s “hell’s drive” is.'

Well, actually, you've only revealed accident statistics and the views of people who live and/or work near the road.

Yes - there have been accidents and fatalities, but those statistics mean nothing until you consider how many journeys are made by road users throughout a calendar year, and THEN compare that figure against the number of deaths/accidents. The total number of road journeys must be enormous.

Should we really "ban HGVs"? HGVs aren't the problem; the drivers overtaking the HGVs, thus exceeding the speed limit (typically 50mph, but also 60mph on some single-carriageway sections) in the process, are the problem.

Similarly, adding more roundabouts seems an illogical solution considering what road safety expert Dan Campsall says: "many of the crashes were clustered around junctions, which he said was to be expected on busy commuter routes".
This article leads with: 'Today we reveal just how dangerous Oxfordshire’s “hell’s drive” is.' Well, actually, you've only revealed accident statistics and the views of people who live and/or work near the road. Yes - there have been accidents and fatalities, but those statistics mean nothing until you consider how many journeys are made by road users throughout a calendar year, and THEN compare that figure against the number of deaths/accidents. The total number of road journeys must be enormous. Should we really "ban HGVs"? HGVs aren't the problem; the drivers overtaking the HGVs, thus exceeding the speed limit (typically 50mph, but also 60mph on some single-carriageway sections) in the process, are the problem. Similarly, adding more roundabouts seems an illogical solution considering what road safety expert Dan Campsall says: "many of the crashes were clustered around junctions, which he said was to be expected on busy commuter routes". Dervish_Mumphry
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Mon 23 Apr 12

Dilligaf2010 says...

TPS Oxford wrote:
supersam wrote:
My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.
The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable.
Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.
[quote][p][bold]TPS Oxford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]supersam[/bold] wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.[/p][/quote]In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.[/p][/quote]The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 0

3:38pm Mon 23 Apr 12

mingthemerciless says...

Completely agree with Dervish! The speed limit for H.G.V.'s on a single carriageway is 40mph. It would help if the impatient morons dicing with death as they try and overtake, looked at their highway code before taking to the road!
Completely agree with Dervish! The speed limit for H.G.V.'s on a single carriageway is 40mph. It would help if the impatient morons dicing with death as they try and overtake, looked at their highway code before taking to the road! mingthemerciless
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Mon 23 Apr 12

L0RD PETER MCVEY 0X2 6EG says...

When Davey and Gideon sit down and look at the bottom line. They will see that the people are expendable, when the option to save lives is a £billion upgrade of the road. Don't forget we are all in it together. But if the 420 connected Dean to Wesminster, how long before it became a three lane motorway then. Money means more than people in "the big society" Very sad but true.
When Davey and Gideon sit down and look at the bottom line. They will see that the people are expendable, when the option to save lives is a £billion upgrade of the road. Don't forget we are all in it together. But if the 420 connected Dean to Wesminster, how long before it became a three lane motorway then. Money means more than people in "the big society" Very sad but true. L0RD PETER MCVEY 0X2 6EG
  • Score: 0

9:42pm Mon 23 Apr 12

King Joke says...

Supersam, of course you can put a price on a human life. Every organisation with safety critical operations, from highway authorities to airlines, does so.

Dervish Murphy, the problems with junctions is that they AREN'T roundabouts. Roundabouts are known to be much safer than standard T-junctions or crossroads. IT would therefore make sense to convert more junctions to roundabouts.
Supersam, of course you can put a price on a human life. Every organisation with safety critical operations, from highway authorities to airlines, does so. Dervish Murphy, the problems with junctions is that they AREN'T roundabouts. Roundabouts are known to be much safer than standard T-junctions or crossroads. IT would therefore make sense to convert more junctions to roundabouts. King Joke
  • Score: 0

11:42pm Mon 23 Apr 12

Dervish_Mumphry says...

Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads.

Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.
Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road. Dervish_Mumphry
  • Score: 0

8:03am Tue 24 Apr 12

## Nonny Mouse ## says...

To be honest, i am suprised at how low the numbers are. The amount of collisions i have witnessed at the Buckland crossing in particular must be getting towards 30.
To be honest, i am suprised at how low the numbers are. The amount of collisions i have witnessed at the Buckland crossing in particular must be getting towards 30. ## Nonny Mouse ##
  • Score: 0

8:34am Tue 24 Apr 12

King Joke says...

Dervish_Mumphry wrote:
Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.
No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer.

THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way.
[quote][p][bold]Dervish_Mumphry[/bold] wrote: Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.[/p][/quote]No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer. THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way. King Joke
  • Score: 0

8:35am Tue 24 Apr 12

King Joke says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
TPS Oxford wrote:
supersam wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.
The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.
How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn?
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TPS Oxford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]supersam[/bold] wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.[/p][/quote]In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.[/p][/quote]The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.[/p][/quote]How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn? King Joke
  • Score: 0

10:05am Tue 24 Apr 12

Dilligaf2010 says...

King Joke wrote:
Dilligaf2010 wrote:
TPS Oxford wrote:
supersam wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.
The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.
How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn?
Sorry, I've got a Microsoft keyboard, the letters randomly rearrange themselves.......tha
t's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;)
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TPS Oxford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]supersam[/bold] wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.[/p][/quote]In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.[/p][/quote]The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.[/p][/quote]How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn?[/p][/quote]Sorry, I've got a Microsoft keyboard, the letters randomly rearrange themselves.......tha t's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;) Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 0

10:10am Tue 24 Apr 12

the wizard says...

I can remember this road going back to the 1950's. Parts of it have been improved, but other parts minimally so, just widened. This particular section has always been bad for visibility and the way nature has been allowed right up to the road side limiting the ability to see whether the road ahead is clear or not.
The whole A420 issue has never been addressed as the public would like by the various highways authorities. The by-passes at Cumnor Hill, Southmoor , Faringdon, and Shrivenham have all been attempts to improve things, but the fact remains there are still sections of this road that are not fit for the intensity of todays traffic. Putting in 50mph limits is simply an admission of guilt that the road is not up to modern day standards, as opposed to doing something about it. There are more 50 mph limits(miles of carriageway) in Oxon than any other county. Oxon has always had a bad reputation for roads, and this road in particular has always been bad. Time for some drastic construction work many would say, but that should have happened 20/30 years ago and prevented the tragic waste and loss of life.
I can remember this road going back to the 1950's. Parts of it have been improved, but other parts minimally so, just widened. This particular section has always been bad for visibility and the way nature has been allowed right up to the road side limiting the ability to see whether the road ahead is clear or not. The whole A420 issue has never been addressed as the public would like by the various highways authorities. The by-passes at Cumnor Hill, Southmoor , Faringdon, and Shrivenham have all been attempts to improve things, but the fact remains there are still sections of this road that are not fit for the intensity of todays traffic. Putting in 50mph limits is simply an admission of guilt that the road is not up to modern day standards, as opposed to doing something about it. There are more 50 mph limits(miles of carriageway) in Oxon than any other county. Oxon has always had a bad reputation for roads, and this road in particular has always been bad. Time for some drastic construction work many would say, but that should have happened 20/30 years ago and prevented the tragic waste and loss of life. the wizard
  • Score: 0

3:01pm Tue 24 Apr 12

remberingthe80s says...

the problems is that the road is on one of the most expensive part of the county and the other problem is the people that own it toffs that don't care. don't blame the police or any other person apart from the toffs and county council personal that in the past and present take back handers to make sure that this road is never upgraded.
that why the road has been the same for years
the problems is that the road is on one of the most expensive part of the county and the other problem is the people that own it toffs that don't care. don't blame the police or any other person apart from the toffs and county council personal that in the past and present take back handers to make sure that this road is never upgraded. that why the road has been the same for years remberingthe80s
  • Score: 0

5:03pm Tue 24 Apr 12

JPOX28 says...

King Joke wrote:
Dervish_Mumphry wrote:
Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.
No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer.

THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way.
Adding alot of mileage just going to Faringdon that way. The A420 and the A40 should both be dualled..

Adding roundabouts, traffic lights is a crazy idea. Makes people even more impatient and more likely to try a risky overtake.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dervish_Mumphry[/bold] wrote: Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.[/p][/quote]No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer. THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way.[/p][/quote]Adding alot of mileage just going to Faringdon that way. The A420 and the A40 should both be dualled.. Adding roundabouts, traffic lights is a crazy idea. Makes people even more impatient and more likely to try a risky overtake. JPOX28
  • Score: 0

5:25pm Tue 24 Apr 12

Dervish_Mumphry says...

King Joke wrote:
Dervish_Mumphry wrote:
Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.
No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer.

THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way.
Thanks for clarifying. There are plenty of T-junctions/crossroa
ds that would be better off as roundabouts.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dervish_Mumphry[/bold] wrote: Well, roundabouts are junctions but not in the traditional sense you mention (i.e., T-junctions or cross-roads) but I appreciate they're safer than T-junctions or crossroads. Anyway, that's just semantics. I still disagree with the idea that adding junctions (whether roundabouts or not) would decrease the number of accidents on the road.[/p][/quote]No one is suggesting adding junction Dervish, just replacing dangerous ones with safer ones. This may be inconvenient for the speed freaks but there's no denying it would be safer. THis route was bypassed by the mid-80s by the A34/M4, dualled throughout. If people are in a real hurry they can go this way.[/p][/quote]Thanks for clarifying. There are plenty of T-junctions/crossroa ds that would be better off as roundabouts. Dervish_Mumphry
  • Score: 0

6:56pm Tue 24 Apr 12

A34North says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
King Joke wrote:
Dilligaf2010 wrote:
TPS Oxford wrote:
supersam wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.
In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.
The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.
How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn?
Sorry, I've got a Microsoft keyboard, the letters randomly rearrange themselves.......tha

t's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;)
Ah Dilly 'my friend' can I also take part in being the 'Gudge & Dury' of your spelling error? ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TPS Oxford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]supersam[/bold] wrote: My friend Kyle Adler uses this road for chasing rainbows amongst other things. He says it should be widened to dual carriageway the full distance from Oxford to Swindon. I tend to agree with him but at what cost? One cannot put a price on life.[/p][/quote]In almost any other developed country a road linking a city and town both with over 100k population would be dual carriageway. That is the real reason why the road has so many fatalities - too much traffic, on inadequate infrastructure.[/p][/quote]The A420 actually continues all the way to Bristol, although it's been renamed between Swindon & Chippenham, so it should certainly be duelled along the whole length, although in some areas it would be impracticable. Although there are alternate routes, with the ever increasing amount of vehicles on the road, it's something that should be seriously considered, in my opinion.[/p][/quote]How can a road be duelled (sic)? Do you propose swords or pistols at dawn?[/p][/quote]Sorry, I've got a Microsoft keyboard, the letters randomly rearrange themselves.......tha t's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;)[/p][/quote]Ah Dilly 'my friend' can I also take part in being the 'Gudge & Dury' of your spelling error? ;-) A34North
  • Score: 0

9:07am Wed 25 Apr 12

## Nonny Mouse ## says...

As has been said already, i think speed has very little to do with it. Show me a time of day when you can exceed 60mph on the A420! There are just too many cars, this then means drivers make desperate lunges out of sideroads to try and fill the tiny gap they have waited 10 minutes for.

Roundabouts would help, sure, but i don't think they are the be all and end all.
As has been said already, i think speed has very little to do with it. Show me a time of day when you can exceed 60mph on the A420! There are just too many cars, this then means drivers make desperate lunges out of sideroads to try and fill the tiny gap they have waited 10 minutes for. Roundabouts would help, sure, but i don't think they are the be all and end all. ## Nonny Mouse ##
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9:14am Wed 25 Apr 12

King Joke says...

THe road does not need dualling and there are no 'too many cars' on it, not in capacity terms anyway. If it were overstretched then it would be jammed solid and 20-30 mph at busy times like the A34 is. It is not. It's perfectly capable of handling the present volume of traffic. What it can't handle is people who do not have the mental capability of dealing with a modern busy road, with high levels of HGV traffic and where you just have to accept you'll have to travel at 40-50 mph not at 60+. If you're to impatient and arrogant to grasp this concept you really shouldn't be driving.

Of course what you can't do is change people's mental attitude. Many people just don't want to be educated. The best we can hope for is to engineer-out conflict with more roundabouts, and speed cameras to keep the speed differentials down and discourage risky overtaking.
THe road does not need dualling and there are no 'too many cars' on it, not in capacity terms anyway. If it were overstretched then it would be jammed solid and 20-30 mph at busy times like the A34 is. It is not. It's perfectly capable of handling the present volume of traffic. What it can't handle is people who do not have the mental capability of dealing with a modern busy road, with high levels of HGV traffic and where you just have to accept you'll have to travel at 40-50 mph not at 60+. If you're to impatient and arrogant to grasp this concept you really shouldn't be driving. Of course what you can't do is change people's mental attitude. Many people just don't want to be educated. The best we can hope for is to engineer-out conflict with more roundabouts, and speed cameras to keep the speed differentials down and discourage risky overtaking. King Joke
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12:38pm Wed 25 Apr 12

Accelebrate says...

Madi50n wrote:
I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them.

The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse.
So long as the cross hatched areas are bordered with broken white lines there's nothing illegal about crossing them to overtake.
[quote][p][bold]Madi50n[/bold] wrote: I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them. The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse.[/p][/quote]So long as the cross hatched areas are bordered with broken white lines there's nothing illegal about crossing them to overtake. Accelebrate
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12:41pm Wed 25 Apr 12

cweb says...

The road is not terrible. The drivers who use it are.

Yes it's busy, yes there are a lot of HGVs and everyone wants to be everywhere a minute quicker, but better to arrive in a car rather than in a coffin.
The road is not terrible. The drivers who use it are. Yes it's busy, yes there are a lot of HGVs and everyone wants to be everywhere a minute quicker, but better to arrive in a car rather than in a coffin. cweb
  • Score: 0

4:58pm Wed 25 Apr 12

Madi50n says...

Accelebrate wrote:
Madi50n wrote:
I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them.

The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse.
So long as the cross hatched areas are bordered with broken white lines there's nothing illegal about crossing them to overtake.
Yes but a large portion of them on the section I drive don't have broken white lines.

Especially those marking areas where people are turning right, I see it at least once or twice a week.
[quote][p][bold]Accelebrate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Madi50n[/bold] wrote: I've been using the A420 everyday from KB to the Botley Interchange for nearly 4 years now & I've lost count of the number of near-misses I've witnessed due to drivers overtaking in blind corners or crossing the cross-hatched areas, squeezing traffic at the end of merging dual carriageways, or simply travelling at 100 mph and having traffic pull out in front of them. The A420 is about the worst I've seen for this, the road's bad, but the drivers make it worse.[/p][/quote]So long as the cross hatched areas are bordered with broken white lines there's nothing illegal about crossing them to overtake.[/p][/quote]Yes but a large portion of them on the section I drive don't have broken white lines. Especially those marking areas where people are turning right, I see it at least once or twice a week. Madi50n
  • Score: 0

9:14am Thu 26 Apr 12

AnneSa says...

This is another very sad loss. However, it needs noting that not all the deaths are caused by the road itself. I remember at least two where drivers suffered heart attacks, both sadly dying either before or because of the crashes, then of two 18 year old lads who were racing friends in another car - they hit a tree and were killed instantly and another of a teenager on a motorbike, well over the drink/drive limit. All sad, but none of them due to the road. I expect some of the others were also due to problems not connected to the road.
This is another very sad loss. However, it needs noting that not all the deaths are caused by the road itself. I remember at least two where drivers suffered heart attacks, both sadly dying either before or because of the crashes, then of two 18 year old lads who were racing friends in another car - they hit a tree and were killed instantly and another of a teenager on a motorbike, well over the drink/drive limit. All sad, but none of them due to the road. I expect some of the others were also due to problems not connected to the road. AnneSa
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12:57pm Thu 26 Apr 12

Angharad12 says...

The main problem is the junctions. At times, it's almost impossible to get on to the A420, if you are coming from Tadpole Bridge, especially if you are turning right. In the end people take chances. Lights are needed at these junctions to solve the probem.
The main problem is the junctions. At times, it's almost impossible to get on to the A420, if you are coming from Tadpole Bridge, especially if you are turning right. In the end people take chances. Lights are needed at these junctions to solve the probem. Angharad12
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3:14pm Thu 26 Apr 12

AnneSa says...

The recent fatality wasn't at a junction - nor were any of the ones I mentioned before. All the junctions are ok if people are patient enough. Traffic lights simply stop traffic causing more frustration - at least roundabouts allow traffic to run.
The recent fatality wasn't at a junction - nor were any of the ones I mentioned before. All the junctions are ok if people are patient enough. Traffic lights simply stop traffic causing more frustration - at least roundabouts allow traffic to run. AnneSa
  • Score: 0

6:02am Fri 27 Apr 12

Angharad12 says...

At times, lights can be more effective at keeping the trafic moving than roundabouts. At junction 12 of the M5 roundabouts have successfully been replaced by lights, completely eliminating dangerous tailbacks on the slip roads, backing up on the motorway. Roundabouts don't help traffic coming from secondary roads as much as lights do. Roundabouts do slow the main traffic though, as do lights, but may be that would be a good thing to reduce accidents. There are relatively few major accidents where there is regular congestion, frustrating as slow progress might be. Roads like the A420 and the A40 too however, with long strethes of fast road, but without the sustained ovetaking facility that you get on a motorway are more dangerous. It needs a proper traffic study, a detailed highways design solution and funding, as growth in this District and in Swindon will only increase problems. It is awful to hear of these tragic deaths.
At times, lights can be more effective at keeping the trafic moving than roundabouts. At junction 12 of the M5 roundabouts have successfully been replaced by lights, completely eliminating dangerous tailbacks on the slip roads, backing up on the motorway. Roundabouts don't help traffic coming from secondary roads as much as lights do. Roundabouts do slow the main traffic though, as do lights, but may be that would be a good thing to reduce accidents. There are relatively few major accidents where there is regular congestion, frustrating as slow progress might be. Roads like the A420 and the A40 too however, with long strethes of fast road, but without the sustained ovetaking facility that you get on a motorway are more dangerous. It needs a proper traffic study, a detailed highways design solution and funding, as growth in this District and in Swindon will only increase problems. It is awful to hear of these tragic deaths. Angharad12
  • Score: 0

8:35am Fri 27 Apr 12

King Joke says...

Angharad is right, the problem on this road is not the level of traffic, in fact the relatively low levels, relative to capacity, lead to the kind of speeds, and hence speed differentials, which are dangerous *in certain situations*.

The problem is, too many people see being made to drive behind a slower vehicle as a personal affront. THey also see any attempt to reduce overall speeds as a personal affront. Thus the rationality is removed from the equation - people take disproportionate risks for very very small time savings - making the situation very dangerous.

You can't change people's mentality other than through brainwashing! THe only way to get them to behave safely is to design out any overtaking at all except on the dualled sections where it is safe. This involves traffic islands and roundabouts probably, I'm no expert but it sounds as if Angharad works in the field and could design something suitable.
Angharad is right, the problem on this road is not the level of traffic, in fact the relatively low levels, relative to capacity, lead to the kind of speeds, and hence speed differentials, which are dangerous *in certain situations*. The problem is, too many people see being made to drive behind a slower vehicle as a personal affront. THey also see any attempt to reduce overall speeds as a personal affront. Thus the rationality is removed from the equation - people take disproportionate risks for very very small time savings - making the situation very dangerous. You can't change people's mentality other than through brainwashing! THe only way to get them to behave safely is to design out any overtaking at all except on the dualled sections where it is safe. This involves traffic islands and roundabouts probably, I'm no expert but it sounds as if Angharad works in the field and could design something suitable. King Joke
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Fri 27 Apr 12

steve1955 says...

I travel this road twice a week the road is not a danger the morons on it are as for speed cameras good for about 50 yards rest of time useless put some covert cameras in place and wath how some idiots drive dont blame the road
I travel this road twice a week the road is not a danger the morons on it are as for speed cameras good for about 50 yards rest of time useless put some covert cameras in place and wath how some idiots drive dont blame the road steve1955
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Fri 27 Apr 12

King Joke says...

Steve is right that the road is not at fault.

Maybe average speed cameras are required rather than the on the spot ones.
Steve is right that the road is not at fault. Maybe average speed cameras are required rather than the on the spot ones. King Joke
  • Score: 0

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